Georgia ACLU Director Departs over Transgender Litigation (UPDATE 1)

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maya dillard smith(APN) ATLANTA — Maya Dillard Smith, Interim Director of the Georgia chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), says she has left the organization due to a disagreement she had over its participation in recent litigation over the use of public restrooms by transgender persons.  And at least one transgender advocate is outraged by her comments.

 

The ACLU of North Carolina is a co-Plaintiff in a lawsuit, Carcano v. McCrory, challenging a controversial law passed by the North Carolina Legislature, HB 2.

 

HB 2 establishes “single sex” restrooms in North Carolina schools and public buildings, and defines “sex” as “the physical condition of being male or female, which is stated on a person’s birth certificate.”

 

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/dkt_1_-_carcano_v._mccrory_complaint.pdf

 

http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015E2/Bills/House/PDF/H2v4.pdf

 

The ACLU, nationally, has made transgender issues an increasing priority.

 

https://www.aclu.org/issues/lgbt-rights/transgender-rights

 

Meanwhile, after the U.S. Department of Justice (USDOJ) issued new guidance that transgendered persons have a Federal Constitutional right to use restrooms consistent with their gender identity, the State of Georgia and ten other U.S. States have sued the USDOJ.

 

However, Dillard Smith, rather than agreeing with the ACLU on these matters, saw herself more on the side of the State of Georgia.

 

In a statement she accused the ACLU of being “a special interest organization that promotes not all, but certain progressive rights.  In that way, it is a special interest organization not unlike the conservative right, which creates a hierarchy of rights based on who is funding the organization’s lobbying activities.”

 

Dillard Smith argues that transgender rights have “intersectionality with other competing rights, particularly the implications for women’s rights.”

 

“I have shared my personal experience of having taken my elementary school age daughters into a women’s restroom when shortly after three transgender young adults over six feet with deep voices entered,” she writes.

 

“My children were visibly frightened, concerned about their safety and left asking lots of questions for which I, like many parents, was ill-prepared to answer,” she said.

 

“Despite additional learning I still have to do, I believe there are solutions that provide can provide accommodations for transgender people and balance the need to ensure women and girls are safe from those who might have malicious intent,” she said.

 

“I understood it to be the ACLU’s goal to delicately balance competing rights to ensure that any infringements are narrowly tailored, that they do not create a hierarchy of rights, and that we are mindful of unintended consequences,” she said.

 

“Thus, I found myself principally and philosophically unaligned with the organization,” she wrote.

 

Dillard Smith has also launched a new website, Finding Middle Ground, that currently promotes a Youtube video in which a young girl on a swingset makes incendiary statements.

 

“Boys in the girl’s bathroom?  I don’t know about that.  There’s some boys who feel like they’re girls on the inside, and there’s some boys who are just perverts,” the girl says, laughing.

 

http://www.findingmiddleground.org/

 

TRANSGENDER ADVOCATE APPALLED AT COMMENTS

 

“She did the right thing leaving the organization  If she couldn’t defend our rights any better than that, she deserves to leave – she doesn’t need to be in that position,” Cheryl Courtney-Evans, of TILTT, told APN.

 

http://www.tiltt.org

 

“The ACLU is supposed to stand up for everybody’s rights – if we’ve got a President and an Attorney General that recognizes our right to be, what to do we need with her then?” Courtney-Evans asked.

 

“She’s supposed to be heading an organization that’s supposed to stand up for everybody’s rights,” she said.

 

As for Dillard Smith’s stated concern regarding the safety of cisgender women and girls in public restrooms: “There is absolutely no documented incident of anyone of transgender experience attacking, molesting, or interacting in any way [that is inappropriate with]… any woman.”

 

“They refuse to respect our femaleness,” Courtney-Evans said.

 

“They’re still talking that crap about men dressing as women going into a lady’s room.  The marriage issue has been resolved, now they need a new whipping post.  So now, the transgender is the weakest link,” she said.

 

“I never went in a men’s room since I’ve been living my truth.  What am I doing in a men’s room looking as luscious as I am, putting myself in danger?” she said.

 

“They don’t even know what they’re demanding,” she added, noting that some transgender men look more masculine than cisgender men.  In other words, HB 2 would require cisgendered women to use the restroom  along with transgender men, some of whom have full beards.

 

A STATE ACLU IN TRANSITION

 

There have been a number of staff changes at the ACLU in recent months and years.

 

Debbie Seagraves had served as Executive Director for many years, retired in 2015.

 

Dillard Smith was recruited from California to replace Seagraves, and was intended to help grow the Atlanta office.  In March 2016, the organization posted hiring announcements for a new Director of Legal Advocacy and Director of Philanthropy.

 

http://saportareport.com/aclus-maya-dillard-smith-i-am-unapologetically-black/

 

Azadeh Shahshahani, who had served as National Security/Immigrants’ Rights Project Director, for the ACLU of Georgia, also for several years, is now at Project South, serving as Legal and Advocacy Director.

 

In recent days, the ACLU has posted a job announcement to replace Dillard Smith:

 

https://www.aclu.org/careers/executive-director-aclu-georgia-0

 

UPDATE 1: Marsha Zeesman, a spokeswoman for the ACLU, declined to comment on the matter because it is personnel-related.

 

(END/2016)

226 comments

  • Goodbye, C’ya, don’t let the door hit you where the … well you know. If a black woman attorney working for a civil rights organization can’t recognize animus when it hit’s her in the face, she is either ill-educated or ignorant, or both.

    • “I’ll-educated or ignorant” You sound just like the typical white male you are, “Lori”.

    • We should never use the word “cis” as it’s not a name for real or natural women but one of the many names men have made up and forced on us like B*tch, slut, C*nt, ho, miss, witch, pig, chick , scag, dog, bird, slag. Such man-made labels are meant to trap us in a box of misogynist’s devising, which no self-respecting woman would subordinate herself to. The “cis” label is one that should only be applied to those who coined the term like transcismen, that is, natural, biological men who are attempting to impersonate women without regard to the damage they are inflicting on women by distorting the perceptions of the economic status of women by attributing the wealth of female impersonators to women, as well as their criminality, and their imposition on their standards in women’s sports, women’s safety in the limited refuges women have carved out for themselves in a male world. There are thousands of instances of transcismen’s violence against both women and men. Richard Speck is one of the more chilling examples of that violence. And like many transcismen he made a mid-life transition from male to female imposter.

      • Okay, first off, trans women are just as “real” and just as “natural” as cis women. That’s why the term exists. Cuz just being cis doesn’t make you more “real” than anyone else.

        Second, do some dang research before you open your ignorant mouth. Trans women did not invent the term “cis”. In fact, we had zero to do with it. It was invented by renowned German sexologist Volkmar Sigusch, who happens to be cisgender himself. And it has zero to do with “subordinating women”, since it applies equally to men.

        Cis just means the opposite of trans. And for the record, the medical community didn’t ask out opinion when they coined the term “trans” either. So go find something else to get riled about.

      • Your bias (which some might refer to as bigotry) is evident, I’m afraid. The term “cisgender” was coined by a transgender, and is nothing more than a neutral, descriptive term that neither promotes nor degrades anyone. Here’s a blog that you may wish to objectively consider on the subject: http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2009/07/cisgender-isnt-insult.html

        • Oops, didn’t see Marti’s reply before posting mine. Without doing a great deal of research, it appears that Volkmar Sigusch may indeed have coined the phrase “cisgender”, although it is arguable the Carl Buijs may deserve the credit for bringing the term to mainstream conversation. Either way, it doesn’t change my argument or Marti’s — it is not derogatory or judging in any way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

        • A transgender PERSON. Don’t say “a transgender”, for sobbing out loud. It’s deeply dehumanizing.

  • Pingback: TERF Infiltration of ‘Progressive’ Organizations | ENDABlog 2.0

  • When the ACLU supports the Ku Klux Klan civil rights, that is not a progressive issue. The ACLU has supported civil liberties on the right, left and middle over the years.

    • No, they do not. They have a twisted view of what “civil liberties” is. They have been wrong on many issues including pornography (completely ignoring the fact it has nothing to do with “free speech” but the exploitation of others which is a human rights abuse), against public school teacher “tenure” (which is truly whacked but makes me think that the rumor the Kochs help finance the outfit is true), and now this blatant disregard for women’s safety and privacy. It started out as a reputable organization, but since the 1970s with porn it has gone down a rabbit hole.

      • In other words, the ACLU has extreme tunnel vision bereft of any kind of critical examination of the larger issues. This is why they are wrong so many times.

      • No, they do not. They have a twisted view of what “civil liberties” is. They have been wrong on many issues including pornography (completely ignoring the fact it has nothing to do with “free speech” but the exploitation of others which is a human rights abuse), against public school teacher “tenure” (which is truly whacked but makes me think that the rumor the Kochs help finance the outfit is true), and now this blatant disregard for women’s safety and privacy. It started out as a reputable organization, but since the 1970s with porn it has gone down a rabbit hole.

        Actually, yes they do. When the government went after Rush Limbaugh’s medical records, they participated in his defense. source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/01/12/aclu-comes-to-rush-limbaugh-defense.html

        The porn is a first amendment issue. Clearly you believe that the bill of rights only applies if you agree with whatever is being done. I may not like the KKK, but I’ll defend their right to say their hate speech, just as I’ll defend your right to say whatever you want to say.

  • Mary Lou Singleton

    The following statement from the article is blatantly untrue. “There is absolutely no documented incident of anyone of transgender experience attacking, molesting, or interacting in any way [that is inappropriate with]… any woman.” Dana McCollum, a transwoman who is a Twitter executive, was found guilty of kidnapping and rape of a woman. The rape was reported in police records and the press as a lesbian rape, even though McCallum’s penis was forcibly inserted into the victim’s vagina. Allison Woolbert, who was the director of the Trangender Human Rights Initiative, was found guilty of raping a 15 year old female. Pat Hagan entered a woman’s restroom and punched a woman in the face, resulting in severe injuries and over $60,000 of dental repairs. These are just a few examples. It harms the credibility of the transgender rights movement to lie and say there has never been an incident of a transwoman being violent to women.
    https://allisonslaw.wordpress.com

    • Hmm.. What was the context of the comment again? Oh that’s right it was stated clearly but you conveniently omitted it, to then misrepresent it completely:

      “As for Dillard Smith’s stated concern regarding the safety of cisgender women and girls in public restrooms: ”

      So it was stating about ‘public restrooms’ and then stating *correctly* that no transgender person has ever molested a cisgender woman in a restroom. But a cisgender woman has.. many times..

      Nevertheless, you resorted to bringing out anecdotes of transgender violence, but of course again without any context like statistics/risk etc so you can sell the talking point even more.. Except.. ‘Statistics’, ‘History’

      There have been 41 years of Gender Identity non-discrimination ordinances in America (Minneapolis first in 1975)
      There has never been a single recorded incident in a restroom from a non-discrimination ordinance where a transgender person ‘molested’ a cisgender person.

      The only one stating blatant untruths is you and people like you that deliberately attempt to misrepresent the facts in a pathetic attempt to demonize transgender people. This is 2016, and if you cared about violence against women that stop victimizing one of the most vulnerable groups there is, and instead consider.. I don’t know.. addressing the actual perpetrators.. cisgender men!

    • Woman born Woman concerned

      THANK YOU!!! We have been pointing to documentation of violence committed by Transgender Females perpetrated against Women born Women and the fact that when this happens they are charged as ‘females’, which skews the statistics regarding male violence against women.

      There is NO good reason to be forcing women to assume the risk carried by allowing people with a penis into their vulnerable spaces. The entire problem is being peddled as “it’s too dangerous to be in male only space” …we get that. That is why we have our own space.

      They need to be addressing the male violence rather than shoving male genitalia into female space. We have a right to feel threatened.

      • It would really help if people, women especially, refuse to use the terms “women born women,” “ciswomen,” “transwomen,” “biological women.” There is only one kind of “woman”–a female human being, one that has the biological equipment to conceive and bear children, the very rare “intersex” notwithstanding. What you do by twisting the language is give credence to transgenderism, which deserves little credence.

        • *Sigh* Nope huge boatloads of nope to your bigotry.
          Trans women are women…full stop.

        • I have a uterus, ovaries, vagina etc, but I can’t have cant have children due to a deformed uterus. Does this not make me a woman? Your logic sucks.

          • Kimberly Chambers

            Yes, of course a person with a uterus, vagina and ovaries is a female, whether their organs are functioning or not — or even if their uterus and ovaries have been removed — just as a person with a penis is a male, whether or not their penis functions or has been surgically altered to resemble a vagina.

      • Yeah nope, links like this are right out of places like GIW and The Hungerford Games. Most of these “Stats” are pure bunk when you take out the actual men, the mentally ill, the crossdressers and anyone else not actual a trans woman. Then add in the fact that these reports are over a period of 30 + years and collected by horrible little people like Gallus Mag/Gendertrender that literally does that professionally…nope, nope rockets to the moon nope.

      • Yeah, no dream on. They don’t charge us as women. Maybe in the near future they will, but not up to now. The criminal court system is NOT that progressive.

    • Really and given the other places that we’ve seen you around selling hate you think you have a shred of credibility outside the right wing radfem bubble?

      Go back to GIW.

    • That’s a lie, you’re playing fast and loose with the term transgender, several transgender people have committed sex crimes. I don’t want to share a bathroom with a man that has raped someone. Only transsexuals who have their things cut off or are getting it cut off should use the target restroom, none of this genderfluid, Male with a lesbian soul, crosdressers, autogynephelia BS.

  • She says there can be ways to accommodate transgender needs and women and girls needs. But the transgender person just cares about that and it wouldn’t be the first time the ACLU was ignorant or oblivious around women’s needs.

    • It is pretty obvious with any cursory understanding of transgenderism what the trans are really about. These men (the vast majority are men)–they are not women–are mostly sexual fetishists. Men, regardless of what they call themselves, don’t belong in women-only spaces.

      • It’s actually stunning how anti-trans folks fetishize trans women. Seriously the expectations from radical exclusionary feminists pretty much mirror the same views as a college fratboy with cis women through porn.

      • TIREDOFLIBERALS

        I agree with you 100% Susan Nunes. Up to this year, I was never a bigot about LBGT… what they do in their homes, bars, whatever was none of my business because the LGBT community was not screaming discrimination over every little offense someone spewed at them. But, I have grown intolerant of the LGBT community. They over-compensate to get the attention and heterosexuals are left with no defense because we have an immoral government. I have offended by a lot of their acts, like the Gay Parades with everyone dressed as porn stars, some mounted to crucifix, what blasphemy, the restroom / locker room fiasco and suing companies because they choose not to support the LGBT… because they believe in the Bible and what it says about not being what you were born to be. But, heteros can get offended and they are bigots, racist, discriminating judges. You don’t like being offended, so what makes you think we like it. Why should a country of 99% heteros change their lives to the extreme to keep .03% LBGT’s of this country happy and not hurt their feelings. Toughen up guys…. quit acting like a bunch of wimps and suck it up. Your community can be worse than an stadium full of hetero women. Real women act tougher than pretend women.

        • Wow; not a bigot before now, but now this year you are a flaming, serious die hard one?

          You don’t have to like Gay Pride to support the ‘gay community'; I really dislike it but now Pride is more about $$, not gay pride. Although, saying someone mounted on a crucifix is blasphemy is a little much. Lots of people have been crucified in history so don’t get where it’s blasphemy.

          As for suing companies – if your company is a public company, you CANNOT – by law – discriminate against people for their race, religion or sex. Want to pick and choose your clientele, become a private business. You CANNOT use the Bible – in which not everyone believes – as an excuse to discriminate. For these small businesses – let’s pick the ‘cake people’ – all they had to do was switch up to a “we are now a private company who does cakes by special order only” and that’d be good. Since they didn’t do that, their own fault for failing.

          BTW, where does it say in the Bible about not being what you were born to be? I’d be interested in that passage and the context of it, because this is the first I’ve heard of such a thing.

          No one likes being offended; sadly you just have to put on adult pants and deal with it. People are offended every day but we all have to get over it.

          But being offended is NOT a reason to deny rights. What was a socially accepted norm yesterday may be changed tomorrow because denying it is a basic right. Like Women’s Rights. At one time Women had none, now we do. It wasn’t socially accepted before, now it is (for the most part; women, IMO, are damaging themselves in a lot of ways to prove the “old boys” right). Gay rights and Trans rights are just another step on the equal rights train.

          As you say, toughen up guys… quit acting like a bunch of wimps and suck it up. Being a “het” isn’t the be all and end all (of course it never was, either as gay and trans were around a looooooooong time before this recent stuff).

          And I love the worse than a stadium full of het women comment. I truly do, because I actually agree with it a little bit. But then, I could say the same about men, too, cause wow… paranoid, over-compensating men is just as bad.

  • Here is a woman trying to balance trans rights with legitimate privacy issues raised by females. Why is it that females have no right to express distress when three grown males come into spaces where we are vulnerable? Is the position of the ACLU that any male who claims to be a woman be granted full access to women’s bathrooms, locker rooms, homeless shelters, and prison cells? If not, which criteria should be used to distinguish between non-trans males and other men? And as to the notion that no transwoman has ever harmed a female, well this is patently false. Please stop elevating transwomen to some kind of sainthood. They are male. They have male histories and some have committed sex crimes in which the victims were females and children. Please watch this video for some examples.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzwMJAFWLtQ

    • Woman born Woman concerned

      We do have a right. What we apparently dont have is a voice. They are erasing us.

  • ** I mean between (male) transwomen and other men?

  • “There is absolutely no documented incident of anyone of transgender experience attacking, molesting, or interacting in any way [that is inappropriate with]… any woman.”

    Surely the editorial staff at the Atlanta Progressive News doesn’t want to let stand such a misleading, indeed demonstrably false, statement. It is highly unlikely that even the person who uttered it believes it.

    Trans advocates don’t need to engage in falsehoods in their public utterances in order to make the case for their rights. Nor should publications run such statements as if they are true. Please do a moment’s research, aka fact-checking, and retract this lie. Or at least update your story with the necessary statement that Courtney-Evans’s outrageous assertion is, in fact, false.

    Thank you.

  • 1) There are hundreds of documented incidents of male people dressing in women’s clothing to access female private spaces for criminal purpose. There are also hundreds of documented incidents of transsexual males committing crimes against females. See allisonslaw.wordrpress.com for a large compilation of evidence.

    2) According to transgender identity politics and gender identity laws, all a male person has to do is declare a “female feeling” to access female spaces. They don’t even have to bother to dress in women’s clothing anymore.

    3) All feminists want is for gender identity laws to include a) the requirement for actual, meaningful transition and b) improper purpose clauses, so that women speaking out against criminal behavior are not themselves criminalized.

    http://secretlyradical.blogspot.com/2016/05/9-out-of-10-conversations-with-lefty.html

  • Rebecca Cummings

    Thank you, Maya, for not joining the hordes throwing real actual biological women under the bus! “Dear Colleague’ just stripped from the class formerly know as women what few rights we have managed to acquire over the past decades. I’m guessing Maya could clearly see what a Pandora’s box this will open. As for the usual trans crap that they never molest, the evidence from actual real court cases trumps yet another of their delusional realities. One can find this information if one cares to educate one’s self, something I’ve not seen happen too often.

    In the meantime, those of you buying this latest snake oil should prove to everyone that you truly believe what you say by buying my 900 lb. grass fed steer (she — I mean “HE” — was mis-gendered and mis-specied at birth by a farmer who said she was a doeling — but I know at only $8.00/lb. you’ll support her — I mean HIS —- true identity so you’re not a bovine or caprine bigot

    • Yep know where this came from too, how’s the radio show you still doing that horrid anti-trans bit of garbage?

  • “I have shared my personal experience of having taken my elementary school age daughters into a women’s restroom when shortly after three transgender young adults over six feet with deep voices entered,” she writes.
    “My children were visibly frightened, concerned about their safety and left asking lots of questions for which I, like many parents, was ill-prepared to answer,” she said.
    “Despite additional learning I still have to do, I believe there are solutions that provide can provide accommodations for transgender people and balance the need to ensure women and girls are safe from those who might have malicious intent,” she said.

    Ms. Smith obviously lacks any knowledge and understanding of transgender people. As a representative of the ACLU it would seem that she would have done her homework, spoke to medical professionals, which would enable her to better do her job. The fact that she couldn’t speak to her daughters reference their supposed encounter is an indication of her ignorance towards the trans community. How could she have effectively defended transgender rights?
    Also, she follows the political and religious right dogma by suggesting that transgender women are akin to sexual predators with malicious intent towards women in restrooms. Perhaps she’ll find work with the FRC or AFA.

    • Your recitation of the new trans orthodoxy notwithstanding, it is clear that Maya Dillard Smith understood the issue very well. She simply disagreed with how the ACLU approached the issue legally and culturally. She is far from alone, no matter what some medical professionals might trot out. This “appeal to authority” doesn’t fly with informed people who are subjecting the trans project to critical scrutiny.

      Further, Ms. Smith did not, as you say, assert that trans women are akin to sexual predators. She did express concern that some might be. Let’s hope you have read the comments here that provide proof that some trans women do indeed commit violent crimes, some of them sexual, against women and children.

      Opposition to the latest version of ever-evolving trans orthodoxy is not exclusive to the political and religious right. Plenty of leftist and left-leaning feminists and their allies are also concerned. Some of them have spoken in this very thread of comments. Including this ultra-left ally of women and homosexuals.

      • Justin Allen Norwood is that you you perdiferous little anal carbuncle?
        Are you pretending to be someone else again?

    • Since there is no such thing as “transgender,” of course men go into women’s spaces in order to rape and sexually harass them. It is pretty obvious the majority of the trans are sexual fetishists and want access to women and girls in order to act out their fetishes, something that should be done in private, not in public spaces. It is all about boundary pushing with these guys Obama and company want to basically legalize rape and sexual harassment of women and girls by MEN. It matters not if these guys have “bottom surgery” which few do because the tendency towards violence by virtue of them being MEN is still there. This is a battle the trans will never, ever win.

      • LOLOLOLOL…She actually went to Obama.

        And these folks like her aren’t right wingers…suuure right.

        • So you’re agreeing with her…awesome look another right wing asshatt that openly admits to being a right wing PoS.

          • I am a lesbian woman and I do not see anything remotely progressive about heterosexual males putting a dress and a wig on and claiming to be lesbians. It is the same old male perverts trying rapey crap, as usual, lesbians do not want them. They are heterosexual males with a fetish, not lesbians, and they creep real lesbians out, we avoid going anywhere they are likely to be. Even most heterosexual women are creeped out by them, of course they wont say anything to your face, but believe me they say it when we get out of your ear shot.

          • Louise given you’re likely the person on the anti-trans radfem hate pages and cites and blogs I’m pretty sure you are your opinion and hate means pretty much nada. Just like your comment of how trans women are talked about…might just be the people you ally with.

          • Yes women know men like you do not give a damn about what women have to say, which is why you are waging a McCarthy style silencing tactic against women who are challenging your woman hating ideology.

            You are wrong, the women I’m talking about didn’t see the problem with males who claim to be women, until they actually saw for themselves the type of men that claim this. They naively believed all these men were self hating gay men, whilst there are some men like that, the overwhelming majority are heterosexual, autogynephilic fetishists. When women saw these men for themselves they felt completely different about the issue. Heterosexual men with autogynephilia are not gay men and women can tell this. These men are extremely entitled, women hating men, women do not want to be around these creeps and say so. These men are dangerous fetishists and women can sense this.

            Keep on with the propaganda that there are no males who have transvestite fetish disorder. That no man with said disorder claims to be a woman (even though the DSM V itself says this IS the reason for late transition in older adolescent and adult males). Keep claiming that these men do not have sleazy motives for barging into women’s private spaces. That it is only right wing people that are bothered about perverted fetishistic men. You are in for a shock, women are not play things that exist in order to enable your fetish, and we will not just passively accept this assault on our rights.

            It may, or may not, interest you to know, that the women’s movement started, not just because of right wing men demanding women stay at home and be wives & mothers, but also because of left wing men demanding that women exist solely for males sexual enjoyment. The trans movement, like the pro pornography and pro sex trade movement, is anti woman at the core. None of these things are “progressive” for women & girls, they are the same old sexual exploitation of females that has existed for millennia. We will not sit quietly by and submit to males exploitation of women & girls. Regardless of whether the males doing the exploiting claim to be “left wing” or “right wing”, it makes no difference, we will fight any males who are trying to exploit females.

    • Can trans advocates talk to other people without the sneering condescension? Just judging from comments left by pro-trans advocates online they are often very nasty and jump immediately to name calling or denigration.

      The comment above by Katherine with it’s hateful, sneering tone and denigration of Smith (an ACLU lawyer with a Harvard degree) as an ignorant right-winger is representative of typical of the wacky world of trans activism online – you know, a world where a woman is quickly dismissed as “ignorant” despite having an Ivy League education and where people who work for the ACLU are “right-wingers” rotfl. Instead of trying to promote goodwill and come to the table with rational arguments, trans advocates simply spout derogatory nonsense as above and bully people who engage in the slightest questioning of the “gender identity” dogma.

      While I’m sure there are calm, respectful trans people (I’ve met a few), the current flavor of trans activism is authoritarian and punitive even toward other leftists that disagree. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate this woman standing up and speaking out for women and girls. She is a brave and courageous person and speaks for many of us who are otherwise onboard with progressive ideals, but who know that trans rights cannot be won at the expense of the hard won rights of women.

      Because the trans narrative is that anyone who is concerned with the bathroom issue is a “right-wing bigot” many of us on the left feel pushed out of our own party by the fact that it’s all or nothing and dissent means excommunication. By standing up publicly, Smith brings legitimacy to the concerns of many otherwise disenfranchised women on the left who are NOT sympathetic to the right-wing, but who also cannot stand by the propagation of blatant lies as truth.

      At this point, US democrats frankly sound like fundamentalist Christians – demanding we all pay lip service to a belief system based in fantasy and lies OR ELSE. I can no longer support these “progressive” measures that just seem to “progress” into silly, reality denying nonsense like “Transwomen are women!” or “No one has ever been attacked by a transwoman!” that tramples on the safety and dignity of almost half the population on behalf of a handful of people with hormone prescriptions and super important “gender feelings”.

      Finally, as others have mentioned, please correct this article with accurate information. Many people in the comment section have provided links that show that what you have printed about the frequency of attacks is blatantly false. It is one thing to have a desire to promote a cause, it is another to push blatant lies in service of an agenda.

      • Thats it though, the transgender ideology that says sex role stereotypes (gender) are innate and that “brain sex” exists is not “progressive”, it is as regressive as can be. It takes us right back to the victorian era, when they used to say the same thing in order to keep the suffragettes in their place. They also said there was a “negro brain” which made black people more suited to certain tasks also. The male establishment have resurrected “brain sex” now, as women have started making in roads into the work place and males want to halt that progress. They therefore use the pseudo science of “brain sex” in order to claim women are more suited to certain tasks, in other words those tasks that lead to the less well paid occupations. Also since when has claiming that wearing make-up, high heels, skirts, or feeling nurturing or sensitive makes someone internally a woman been “progressive”? The whole transgender ideology is as conservative and regressive as can be.

        What would be progressive is if males said “yeah i like dressing in a skirt and wearing make up and i cry at sad films, but that does not make me any less of a man”, that IS progressive. Claiming that those things make them the opposite sex, is sexist and regressive, so lets call transgender ideology out for the conservative, regressive, misogynistic, homophobic that it is.

  • My hat is off to you Ms. Dillard Smith. It takes a lot of guts for women to speak up in this climate. While it is predictable that you will now be be subject to sexist, illogical, defamatory attacks for speaking out, many women share your concerns, but are too afraid to speak up. Thank you for saying what many others are too afraid to say.

  • We have a right to sex segregated spaces, as female’s who are oppressed on the basis of our sexed bodies by the opposite sex. If males who self identify as women would also like segregated spaces as they do not feel safe sharing such spaces with the other males who are not transgendered who discriminate against them and threaten their saftey then transwomen should have a right to safe spaces also.
    But they do not have a right to take away the rights of women by changing spaces from sex segregated to gender identity segregated just because it suits them. Their rights do not trump ours. They should create another space.

    • Women have a right not to be labeled and othered full stop.

      That’s the argument because there is no line, you folks won’t stop at one way to damage trans women. We give you this…our space then you’ll take more.

      • Kimberly Chambers

        I don’t want to damage anyone. I simply don’t want to shower with or undress in front of males. I don’t want a male in the same room when I am unclothed and vulnerable. I don’t think that is unreasonable. If trans males do not feel safe using men’s facilities, then they need to lobby for their own facilities. “Transwomen” are males; they’re not the same as women. It is a sad thing if this truth upsets them, but still it is the truth — they are not the same as women. They need their own bathrooms if they don’t want to use the men’s bathroom. They are not the same as women and should not be using women’s facilities.

        • Trans women are women seriously full stop. How othering them actually protect you? You really need to get that singling them out puts them in harms way.

          Trans women aren’t there in these places to be on display or to use them for anything else than the intended purpose. Actually their levels of body shyness are likely higher and more shame filled than most cis womens.

          Trans women despite the right wings and radfems claims don’t want to see their own bits much less have others do it.

          If it’s a privacy issue then feel free to fight for better stalls, showers, change curtains for ALL women.

          Of course you can shift to using those other available spaces if you can’t be respectful.

        • Okay, here’s a thought: you don’t want to do things in front of ‘males’, right? Because it makes you feel vulnerable and whatever else.

          Well, that’s how trans women feel being in the same facility as men. Only worse.

          You think all the so called points about the ‘evilness of men’ towards women will not be put upon trans women? Really? You’ve only to look around to see this is so, so beyond the case.

          Trans women are just as victimized as other women. Period. Trans women are women. Period. They look a little different but are still women.

          • Get a clue, handmaiden. Keep catering to autogynephilic males. See what it gets you.

            https://autogynephiliatruth.wordpress.com/

          • And here’s more fetish links to shame your fetish like some pulpit courting republican just before getting caught.

            Seriously stop you’re not fooling anyone.

          • @baileysummers People that have ethics know that there are some things people should feel ashamed about, that voyeurs and flashers for example should feel ashamed of wanting to spy on or expose themselves to others. Similarly those who have ethics think males who get aroused by forcing others to pretend they are women and try to force us to let them in our spaces so they can get off, should feel ashamed about wanting to do that.

            The truth is women do not want to be part of your fetish, by trying to force us to partake in your fetish you are acting like a rapist, you should feel ashamed about that. Trying to pull a reversal will not work, as only men have autogynephilia and fetishes are primarily male afflictions. You need to get proper help for your problem, it is not a civil rights issue, that males like you think it is, shows how much male entitlement you have. Women do not exist to play a part in your fetishistic fantasy, it is a symptom of narcissism to think we do. It is also well known that males who have autogynephilia also have narcissism, so it is hardly a surprise that you think as you do. It also explains why you can not comprehend the idea of ethics without thinking it is “right wing”. Narcissists are incapable of empathy and can not think of anyone, but themselves, so ethics are foreign to them.

          • Wow @ Louise

            Please don’t assume to speak for all women with your little spewfest of intolerance and “I’m a woman and I’m afraid of everything!”.

            Transwomen are not men so what you’re discussing isn’t anything to do with transwomen.

            Throwing the term rapist around too really doesn’t help your cause either, especially when it’s uncalled for. I’m pretty sure Bailey is actually a feminist and very pro-female. Accusing them of being a rapist is totally disgusting really.

            I think the only ‘fetish’ here is your focus on needing to degrade women, belittle women, and make women out to be these weak creatures that oh goodness we need to have our own space because if we don’t MEN! Don’t get me wrong, I get there are some sleezeball men out there who deserve various nasty things to happen to them, but not all men are like that. Just like not all women are worth sticking up for just because they are women.

            As a woman, I am not afraid of transwomen sharing the same bathroom or locker room as me, because they are women too. As a woman, I am for the freedom of all women to be who they are, regardless of the bigotry of others – men or women. And as a woman, I realize that the men out there who are defending women of all types, deserve our respect for standing up against men who could care less.

            BTW, fetishes are SO not just a male thing. I know of women who have fetishes too. Stop playing this “women are pure/innocent” card.

          • Sorry fella, but that manipulation will not work either, males are known to have fetishes and it is mentioned in the DSM V that it is the reason adolescent and adult males get diagnosed with “gender dysphoria”. It also states that females do not have transvestic behaviour with sexual excitement, and that it is not females reason for transitioning. Demanding that females participate in a male fetish against our will IS rapey, no matter how you look at it. Trying to manipulate things and say women who do not want to be around such males are playing the victim, is the disgusting thing around here pal.

            “Not all women are worth sticking up for” a man trying to play the old divide and conquer tactic, well thats original. Not. Yes all women are worth sticking up for, no male will ever convince a real feminist otherwise. I think you probably should go back and try that tactic on the libfems who have fallen for queer theory (which is no kind of feminism at all) they will be only too pleased to support a man who tells them what to do & think, no doubt. Some of us have our own minds buster.

            Since you just ignore facts that are inconvenient to you, like when the DSM V says that fetishes are primarily a male thing. Not to mention all the crime data & stats that say males are the ones who overwhelmingly commit sexual offences (the % of males is well into the high 90’s) compared to women. I think we can safely say you are delusional, and will try and any trick in the book to manipulate, so you can carry out your fetish without challenge. All this does is show how narcissistic your are. The fact that you seem to be oblivious to this, also shows that you are indeed narcissistic.

            By the way, no body here believes you are a woman, so might as well stop the charade. If a woman spoke as you do she would be a very sad case of someone who had chronic internalized misogyny, I have not seen any woman who would openly show that much self hate. As it is only males and the naive that would defend males like you entering female only spaces, once they know about your fetish motives.

          • @Lou-the-guy

            “Sorry fella…” Hehehehehe… I still find this funny.

            The only reason I am answering another of your posts is because of this part:

            ““Not all women are worth sticking up for” a man trying to play the old divide and conquer tactic, well thats original. Not. Yes all women are worth sticking up for, no male will ever convince a real feminist otherwise. ”

            No, not all women are worth sticking up for and it’s sad you feel you must, just because they’re women.

            But women child molesters, child murderers, abusers and rapists (oh yes, women rape and don’t even TRY to give me some BS story that they don’t) do NOT deserve me, or anyone, sticking up for them. They are just as vile as men and deserve NO consideration at all for their actions. If you were a REAL feminist, you’d agree with that much at least.

          • Of course violent crime and sexual abuse committed by anyone male or female is unacceptable. Women are not the ones who commit the overwhelming amount of violent crimes including sexual crime though, that is men. Indeed females are overwhelmingly the victims of crimes like sexual violence. Men who commit these crimes often avoid prosecution, or receive ridiculously light sentences. As is true in the recent Brock Turner rape case, which involved a unconscious woman being raped, the perpetrator only got six months. Real feminists support any woman who is a victim of male crimes; which are perpetrated against females because males often feel entitled to commit them and know they will often receive impunity if they do. This is because we live in a society where males are valued more highly than females. And all females, regardless of whether they have experienced violence at the hands of men or not, have to deal with the consequences of living under such a system. Really crimes like sexual abuse, rape, voyeurism, flashing, pimping, trafficking etc should be classified as hate crimes, as the overwhelming victims of said crimes are females, and the perpetrators are overwhelmingly male. (The same can be said for prostitution and pornography.) Feminists who support females right to not be abused and exploited by males, over males ‘right’ to do whatever they want. And believe the system we live under unjustly favours males, are known as radical feminists. This is because truly valuing females and looking out for their wellbeing is a radical concept, that, sadly, very few subscribe to. It is not “phobic” or “hateful” to fight for females to be treated with respect and dignity, as many seem to suggest. The people who suggest this are only upholding the system that values males over females, and enabling males abuse and exploitation of females to continue.

  • The ACLU fights for all Civil Liberties except for Women and Girls. Proof: the rampant Legislation and Regulation of Women’s Health, Medicine and Pay Equality. Face it, the ACLU will never fight for Women’s Rights unless she was born with a penis.

  • Informative article. Except for this bit,

    “There is absolutely no documented incident of anyone of transgender experience attacking, molesting, or interacting in any way [that is inappropriate with]… any woman.”

    That is simply a lie. There have been dozens of documented cases of men posing as trans, men who are just crossdressers and not trans, and men who are both trans and perverts assaulting women in public washrooms, videoing women in locker room showers and publicly masturbating in washrooms.

    https://allisonslaw.wordpress.com/category/assault-in-womans-bathroom/

    This website has many more instances. And while yes it’s coming from a feminist website these are all stories that are sourced to regular mainstream news outlets.

    It’s telling that prominent trans activists lie about this rather than attempting to deal with this potential problem. Rather than attempting to find middle ground. They don’t seem to understand that their movement could suffer the horrible public relations nightmare of someone, including someone who isn’t really trans, raping a woman in a public washroom and it being all over the news.

  • Well done for standing up for women. Mtf transgender people are not men, not women, as defined by their biological sex. A woman is defined as an adult human female. Women do not have to transition, or ‘pass’ , they do not need to be renamed ‘cis’, and in a world where women routinely experience abuse and violence at the hands of men, they deserve safe spaces including toilet facilities.

    • So are you saying – just to be clear – trans men (FtM) are women too? Why aren’t you defending them so hard then?

  • Well done for standing up for women. Mtf transgender people are men, not women, as defined by their biological sex. A woman is defined as an adult human female. Women do not have to transition, or ‘pass’ , they do not need to be renamed ‘cis’, and in a world where women routinely experience abuse and violence at the hands of men, they deserve safe spaces including toilet facilities.

  • Former ATL resident

    Good for Ms. Smith. I used to support trans rights but over the past few years, transgender activists are becoming increasingly hostile and entitled, so much so that I started questioning my former support. Women are rightfully nervous about 6-foot tall bearded male-bodied strangers in intimate spaces with them, but the reaction I’ve heard so often is to mock those women for their fear. How is that progressive? Like it or not, violent incidents do happen in women’s bathrooms (here is a blog that is keeping track of them: https://allisonslaw.wordpress.com/ )

    But all I hear from trans activists is misogyny and name-calling, never any attempt to address the fears and come to a mutually beneficial solution. Right here in this very comment section a poster has called Ms. Smith ignorant for being afraid. This isn’t right.

    • Sabrina Pandora

      So if these bathroom bills you are so hot for pass, then you will force transmen into the ladies room. While you might not agree with their gender identity either, they look for all intents and purposes like cis men. You know, regular guys. So what is to stop ‘regular guys’ who are actually wanting easy access to women’s spaces from claiming they are transmen, therefore legally obligated to use the ladies room?

      It’s a whole lot easier than walking in heels, putting on a dress and makeup and venturing out in public looking like an obvious transwoman. Instead you provided them witht he easiest ruse in the world and sent them effortlessly into women’s spaces, while shoving transwomen who just want to pee into men’s spaces.

      Nice job. Good humanitarianism there folks. Glad you were so up in arms about us in the ladies rooms that you’d rather invite real predators amongst you.

      • I keep seeing this contorted non-logic attempting to refute women’s very reasonable and important objections to unfettered access to their private spaces by men. It’s funny because you’re admitting women have grounds to fear men, but you only will allow us to fear men with vaginas.

        A third, gender neutral toilet for the gender non-conforming will solve all the problems of access, and not require women to give up their boundaries and privacy. That’s what you should have been fighting for all along instead of demanding obedience from everyone when you tell them men can become women.

        • Trans women are women.
          Trans women are not men.
          Why should any woman have to put up with othering policies and segregational antics?

          Oh…right…trans exclusionary radical feminists….speaking on behalf of all women regardless of what those women want, need or believe for like what from the 60’s now.

          • You are stating a belief that no one is required to share. Transwomen are men. You help no one’s cause by denying reality.

          • It’s not denying reality but confirming it actually since this is actually respected as real life outside of right wing conservative idealogy and that includes radfems.

          • Kimberly Chambers

            Trans males are not the same as women. No matter what they inject into their bodies or what surgeries they undergo, what clothes they wear or how the fix their hair, transgender males are not the same as women. It is not bigotry or hate to accept this biological fact. Facts are facts.

            Sex-segregated bathrooms are segregated by sex, not be wishes or beliefs or feelings. Sex-segregated bathrooms are not illegal. Women fought for them. Now men want to take them away. If trans males do not want to use the men’s room, they need to lobby for their own facilities like women did.

          • Kimberly Chambers… Trans males are men.

            If you’re going to be a bigot then get the terminology right…seriously, you have zero business in these talks if you have zero idea WTF you’re talking about.

  • I’m always hearing how “There is absolutely no documented incident of anyone of transgender experience attacking, molesting, or interacting in any way that is inappropriate with any woman.”

    https://transwidow.wordpress.com/2016/03/25/are-transwomen-a-threat-in-womens-spaces/

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/sexual-predator-jailed-after-claiming-to-be-transgender-in-order-to-assault

    You could argue all day about whether the people in those examples are “truly” transgender or not, but ultimately, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter because in the eyes of these new laws that are being pushed, every single one of those people has just as much a right to a private women’s only space as women do. We need anti-discrimination legislation that not only accommodates, but also does the job of protecting our most vulnerable citizens – and pretending this stuff never happens isn’t helping anybody.

    • Transwidow… that’s right off The Hungerford games recently it’s actually laughable the sources of these anti-trans comments. Seriously…trans people read the hate pages we see you all the time you’re not really fooling anyone anymore.

  • Thank you, Smith, for standing up for women and girls. The ACLU will defend the free-speech rights of the KKK and neo-nazis but not for women who do not want penis in their private spaces, eg restrooms, locker rooms, hospital assignments, shelters, and even women’s prisons.

    I no longer donate or support the ACLU. Sad.

  • Thank goodness someone sees the conflict of rights in this issue. Women and transgender people both have rights. Women and transgender people are both fear male violence. I think the solution is to make many single occupancy units available for anybody. Leave the men’s and women’s bathrooms segregated by biological sex.

    • So why should a different kind of woman need to be made to use a facility that others her?

      • Kimberly Chambers

        Because they are not women. Males are not women — not even a “different kind of woman”. A male cannot be a woman. This is a biological fact. If trans males do not want to use the men’s room, they need to lobby for their own facilities.

        • Trans women are women, go and learn some intersectionality then read some actual trans pages and get that trans and cis women share hugely connecting oppressions together. This is pretty basic stuff too it’s simple respect for a different type of woman than you.

          • This is so painfully stupid, look kid,
            female is a term defined across multiple species. It refers to an organisms ability or potential to produce ova.

            Woman = female + human

            In mammals males can never produce ova.
            Transwomen are male. Therefore not women.
            Before you blah blah blah about brain sex, great news, the brain is not a sexual organ. It’s structure is irrelevant in determining the sex of a human.

          • The ignorance of trans cultist abounds. It’s all about defending autogynephilic males’
            pseudo-right to violate girls and womens’ spaces.

            https://autogynephiliatruth.wordpress.com/

            http://thenewbacklash.blogspot.com/

          • As I’ve said before right wing 2nd wave radfems have a porn like fetish and the ethics and morals of a sex trader/pimp boosting their support of a theory created by 2 old white cis men that turned their chaser fetish into 70’s-80’s debunked sexuality academics.

            Seriously you need to stop perving on trans women and supporting Blanchard and company.

            You’re being an anti-feminist and upholding the patriarchy.

  • I respect her tremendously! Thank you, Ms. Smith, for taking a stand for class female.

    Male violence is the problem here. Can you not see that females should not have to increase their risks because biological males (male-to-trans) are at risk from other biological males? According to TransAdvocate, between 67% and 96% of MTTs retain their penises. That is a distinct threat to females who are very vulnerable in changing rooms, bathrooms, etc.

    One-in-three females—you know, those XX humans—experience male (XY) violence. One-in-four females experience rape/sexual assault from males. How does allowing biological males in female sex-segregated spaces seem like a good move?

    How many females will have to be assaulted, raped and even murdered before the public realizes this is bloody dangerous to class female?

    I know that some claim that MTTs never, ever, not even once, have assaulted females in restrooms, we women know otherwise:
    https://autogynephiliatruth.wordpress.com/2015/11/04/the-threat-to-women-and-girls-presented-by-transgender-bathroom-bills/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzwMJAFWLtQ

    http://kittyit.tumblr.com/post/139457140172/40-trans-women-who-committed-violent-crimes

    https://thepoliticsofgender.wordpress.com/2015/11/19/trans-male-violence/

  • This is one of the hottest American social issues I’ve witnessed in a very long time.. I do mean that almost every ACLU lawsuit causes “Smith vs Hathaway” type battles ad nausea. The Transgender issue is really not the issue for me to cast my judgement. I have known a few, most of whom have been so dynamic inside their bodies and the rest has simply been none of my business…between them and their god.

    What bothers me about the argument is not the transgender person alone….but two dimensions of the issue……… the imitators who would use the opportunity to go into a bathroom more so to take advantage of anyone else in there……and, the awful fact that accusations that could be levied against a transgender who may be accused or falsely accused of one of the many of America’s sex laws… Laws which have landed people in prison on charges that require little or no proof….adding to the massive levels of incarceration and life-long misery of the accused as well as the victimized. My concern is that there are only a few laws that address the transgender issue and this ACLU matter is opening many discussions that simply need to be analyzed.

    I am the mother of a sex offender of the “normal” or heterosexual persuasion who received a stiff sentence for what someone said he did. I also know several persons who were homosexual and transgendered before incarceration. What happens after incarceration is usually horrorifcally promulgated by heterosexuals. Now, Imagine an accusation by someone with ‘homo-phobia’ who may levy an accusation against a transgender in the public restroom of any setting…with or without witnesses. Also imagine an impersonator (pretending to be transgender) who enters a public restroom with motives other than using the bathroom. Imagine further, what could happen if someone was either victimized…or someone was wrongfully accused of victimizing.

    More horrific is that there are “straight”, homosexual, and transgender human beings with personal problems that take place in human interactions both inside and outside the restroom atmospheres like restaurants, church, concert halls, transit systems, and playgrounds or parks. There are bound to be more problematic aspects of the entire transgender issue. Americans at large, religious zealots or simply people who harbor judgmental thoughts ignite the issue even more and the problems will grow and more arguments will come forth. This is gonna be a doozy for my imagination, and I’m too old to do much more imagining.

    America’s sex laws are so perplexing and our personal rights are taking on so many shapes and dimensions. It’s not that our choices should be limited but certainly those choices must take into consideration the impact that our personal views and actions have on others’ beliefs and choices. And even though bathrooms have stalls that lock others out…a great many transactional activities may take place as one enters a stall…like greeting others or in-depth observations about each other’s personal attributes ( none of our damned business, I’d say), or sinister actions on the part of abusers of others’ personal space. In the so-called normal bathroom facilities, atrocities have taken place…..so let’s be fair about the many dimensions taking shape in this issue.

    This comment I am making just might draw a lot of opposition or opinions that add flavor. Don’t stress. Just take pause to consider how society is changing. Having experienced the awful repercussions of the sex offender laws, I’d hate to see the impact an accusation would have on a transgender citizen who was accused by a child or adult of any level of abuse because the laws simply ain’t no joke whether the accusation is false or true. The prison system is being loaded to the gills with so-called sex offenders and the antithesis is that we are experiencing a catastrophic sexual revolution that includes social media displays, babies twerking, sex acts throughout movies and cable networks. The sky is the limit on sex in all of its dimensions.

    It’s okay that Maya Dillard Smith is leaving the ACLU. She’s a sharp individual with great promise and strong enough to be honest about her views. Why not? Defending a groups’ rights entails much of what I just discussed.

    Maya and the ACLU board agreed on why she should depart. Having gotten the chance to meet this promising attorney, I think we should Just watch for the materialization of what this ACLU position holds…… her own reservations may be right. If she’s wrong, it seems she is strong enough to swallow that too. On the other hand, I hope for nothing less than peace in this sexual revolution taking place in America.

  • Yes, because nothing says weakest link like having dozens of stories about your demographic daily for the past two years…

    • Woman born Woman concerned

      Right? This group has the Gov’t, the military, educational institutions, the fortune 500 corps, the media & hollywood lining up to hand them whatever they want. And they’re busy reinventing ‘language’ so they won’t be reminded they aren’t actually female.

      And…They have very deep pockets. Womens groups, not so much.

      But hey, the people/companies/industries that provide SRS, hormones, therapy and a whole new line of clothing and toys that let them fake their period are set to make huge money on these folks. Guess there isn’t much profit in birth control and abortion.

      • Alex Jones feminism right here…welcome to the results of good analysis from critical feminism meets 2nd wave extremists just as wackadoodle as any fundamentalist group….wait you support those folks too.

  • The ACLU should support everyone’s rights equally, and that includes women’s rights. There are other viable options to accommodate restrooms for trans-people. In this society, women born women always come last. I applaud her for standing up for women’s rights.

    • “Women born women”…

      I am a woman, I was born a woman. I’ve never come last unless I did something to make myself come last.

      Seriously, people who say “Women are born women come last” are why I HATE being a woman sometimes: anything to look at as an excuse as to why things don’t go their way.

  • Yet again, the transwomen keep twisting it. Nobody is afraid of the transwomen: we are afraid of people pretending to be transwomen. Stop your lying.

    and to say this would never happen, bullshit. It has happened. Its happened a lot. It happened before all this kicked off, its been happening for years. There are men who just long to go where they arent allowed, the more forbidden, the more they want it. Now they wont have to hide in the stalls, they can walk right in. Search for newsreports of men hiding in bathrooms…there are men who will lie on a dirty floor all day waiting for the chance to peep. Already, reports of cellphones held over shower partitions. A woman of 70 subjected to a man staring at her, with a full erection, while she tried to change…and the transwomen called her a liar.

    and that remark about looking ‘luscious’ is just gross. This is a serious issue. Its not about your personal validation.

    • Fiona, you are mistaken when you say that nobody is afraid of the people you term transwomen. Being biological males, they commit crimes at roughly the same rate as other males, including crimes of sexualized violence. We must be clear about the facts in publc discussions of this issue.

      That said, thank you for your strong statements in support of female safety.

      • This false rate has been on here and it’s related studies that radfems use have been debunked for a long time. I’m thinking you’re or others here are sockpuppet accounts…a radfem extremist legacy from The fake goth.

        • Baileysummers — what false rate? In fact, GLADD, the ACLU, and any other pro-LGBTQ group you could name has failed — FAILED — to provide any evidence that trans females commit violence against women at a rate less than non-trans men. Do you have evidence to the contrary? We have looked at the studies and found not a one that validates your claim that this statistic has been “debunked.”

          If you can provide evidence that trans females commit violence less than other males, would be glad to see it. I can provide a 1988 eight-year peer-reviewed study that concludes transsexualism is itself the single paraphilia most frequently associated with with violent sexual assault.

      • So what does it mean, then, that I, as a woman, am not afraid of trans women at all? That my safety is pretty much a non-issue around anyone trans?

    • Thank you, Fiona! I agree, that comment by Courtney-Evans is repulsive and implies that men rape women because the latter look too “luscious” to resist… Ugh.

    • I’m not afraid of transgender people. I just don’t agree that transgenderism is a legitimate social classification. It’s absurd that we’re seriously discussing whether a man can declare himself a woman and assert his ‘right’ to have the rest of society pretend along with his delusion.

      There’s no balancing to be done here.

    • Yeah…trans women aren’t male perverts, trans women are women.

      • Nope. Trans women are male. Repeating the same garbage over and over doesn’t magically make it true. Sorry that REALITY upsets you so.

        https://transgenderreality.com/

        • Trans women are women. Period.

          Using a biased and selective blog with selective comments to back your beliefs doesn’t make your statement valid.

        • I’m cool with reality it’s awesome out here past the radfem and right wing bubble.

          Trans women are women.

          And in the end equal rights will win out over bigotry.

  • Charlotte Edwards

    This is a list of (mainly UK, but I’m sure there are plenty in the US too) examples of male-bodied people (who may or may not be transgender) who dressed as women to commit crimes in women’s toilets.

    This makes it very clear that there are plenty of men out there who would happily put a dress on to get access to our toilets, and the transgender activists appear to have no interest at all in women’s very legitimate concerns.

    As the little girl mentioned in the article said, “some boys are just perverts”.

    http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Cross-dresser-branded-high-risk-women/story-16994889-detail/story.html

    http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/bullring-toilet-pervert-who-wore-154191

    http://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/local-news/97436/69-year-old-exposed-himself-to.html

    http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-city/index.ssf/2011/10/cross-dressing_sex_predator_se.html

    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2003/11/27/national/man-caves-in-to-voyeuristic-needs/

    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Man-Dressed-as-Woman-Spies-Into-Mall-Bathroom-Stall-in-Virginia-Police-Say-332934761.html

    http://www.sptimes.com/News/92599/Pasco/Cross_dressing_man_se.shtml

    http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/03/02/man-in-barbie-costume-attacks-woman-in-bathroom/

    http://ktla.com/2013/05/14/da-cross-dressing-man-secretly-videotaped-women-in-macys-bathroom/

    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Secret-Recording-Store-Mall-Antelope-Valley-Palmdale-Restroom-207541101.html

    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Police-Man-in-bra-and-wig-found-in-women-s-3414089.php

    • I’ll give you that women have the right to be concerned.

      There are likely men who have and will continue to try and ‘dress up’ as women to perv on them, or worse.

      What does this have to do with trans women? Not the same thing at all and actually it’s two different issues.

        • Okay, “Dude”. I’ve taken a look at your links. Here’s my thoughts on them.

          First link – At the end of the first post – and I did read it, even comments – I am honestly not sure if I should laugh at the stupidity or just give up instantly at the cherry picked comments that even without the full context, I didn’t see the issue with some of what was said. Further on in the blog I admit there’s things that are interesting I do want to read into. However – and this is the big part – I think the person who posts at this blog is missing a whole lot of story and context in some of the things they post about. There’s a lot of cherry picking of the ‘bad’, but where is the good? If you want to talk trans reality and be honest about it, I’d like to see both good AND bad, not snippets of one side or the other.

          Link two – Instant bias shown and not a viable source proving anything really. And as I admittedly have never heard of autogynephilhilia, upon looking it up I actually have to wonder just how desperate someone has to be to believe this BS is true for all cases of Transgenderism. (Hint, likely not true at all). Grasping at air to make your point in any way possible doesn’t help you.

          Link three – In the first part of the intro of the blog, there is instant ignorance and clearly no real understanding of what being medically defined as ‘trans’ is. Being trans is NOT someone who just out of the blue says “Oh I feel like a woman”, as the image implies. It is only after serious counseling after years of personal turmoil and hardship that someone might get up the courage to say I am a trans person, and that is because society as a whole pushes them to question themselves for *years* about who they are.

          I notice all your links talk about trans women. Where is your outrage for trans men?

          I would say that your lack of seeming to care of a trans man wants to head into a male’s bathroom or locker room means you are more than likely just being sexist against trans women and in which case I’d wonder why are you so afraid of a trans woman?

  • There seems to be a very strange myth going around on the internet that no trans person has ever attacked a woman. There are hundreds of documented cases. There are a huge amount of people who claim to be trans women in prison already for violence against women. It is unethical BAD journalism to publish non facts.

    • It’s unethical to support the cultured sources that trans exclusionary radical feminists are using here. It’s just so much straw…so much straw.

      • These are criminal case histories, published and verified and vetted. They are on the record. There are hundreds of such cases. They are, therefore, not “straw,” and it’s unethical to lie about such a serious matter when there are literally hundreds of victims who have suffered at the hands of transsexual male-to-females.

      • Kimberly Chambers

        St. Petersburg Times? NBC Los Angeles? NBC Washington? Japan Times? These sources are unethical? What I see in those links is a large number of general news sites reporting on occurrences and crimes in the geographic areas they cover. It just so happens these crimes are not particularly uncommon, so there are a good number of such stories reported by the news.

        • Yeah now both of you go through them and actually remove the cross dressers and the one timer pervs and all the stories on all these pages and links and just put up the ones definitely claiming transition or better going through transition and then look at the dates and even geography since there are so widespread and apply it with actual critical honesty.

          I’ve been doing this awhile, people like Gendertrender and associates have literally been doing this as a career.

          Straw…lies and massive lies.

          These people are manipulative as much as they’re right wing from Radfems to Republicans and their clones in other countries and the religious right.

          And here we see that behavior being defended and actually allied to.

  • Why is my comment still awaiting moderation? Though the evidence is indeed obscured on the Internet and often denied vehemently by trans people and their advocates, it isn’t difficult to uncover the plain fact that Courtney-Evans’s statement in this report is patently false.

    Here’s one such incident: a prominent trans woman, Twitter engineer Dana McCallum, who raped her wife while their children were present in the wife’s home. She copped a plea, but the details are clear.

    http://valleywag.gawker.com/twitter-engineer-dana-mccallum-pled-guilty-to-two-misde-1643207780

  • Margaret McDermid

    Absolutely appalling.

  • Pingback: Georgia ACLU Director resigns over the organization’s failure to balance transgender rights with women’s rights | GenderTrender

    • Look more blantant support by radfem right of two old white cis male trans chasers that used academia to canonize their fetishes.

      Nothing like radfems literally using the patriarchy to take a blast at trans women.

  • Thanks to Atlanta Progressive News for publishing all these comments that contradict the false statement made by Cheryl Courtney-Evans in this story. Now that your editors know some portion of the facts, we hope never to see such a false statement made here again without being labeled as having no credibility.

    In case it is not clear, there are thousands of such documented incidents of violence committed by trans women, aka biological males, around the world. This is not to vilify trans people by labeling them all as violent criminals. Most trans people will never commit such crimes.

    • Given your other comments you’re very good at playing the “I’m not a bigot but…” game.

  • Good for her. Years ago I gave money to the ACLU, but now I wouldn’t give that outfit one nickel. It is not just because of its woman-hating agenda of supporting people with mental disorders while disregarding women’s rights, but they are also wrong regarding so-called public school teacher “tenure.” The ACLU can go to hell. They aren’t going to win on this anyway.

    • Wow…so you’re ablelist against people with mental illnesses.

      Or was this a cute dig vs trans folks?

  • “There is absolutely no documented incident of anyone of transgender experience attacking, molesting, or interacting in any way [that is inappropriate with]… any woman.”

    This is factually incorrect. Males who cross dress or identify as transgender offend at the same rate as other males.

    (1.) It’s a fact that males claiming “gender identity” have exposed themselves to girls and women in women’s locker rooms.

    http://www.adfmedia.org/files/EvergreenPoliceReport.pdf

    (2.) It’s a fact that cross dressing males dressed as women (skirts, makeup, etc.) and males identifying as transgender have been convicted of all sorts of crimes in women’s restrooms, women’s locker rooms, and women’s homeless shelters. This is a small sample, and it’s based on court records.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzwMJAFWLtQ

    More information here.

    http://nounequalrights.com/information/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/The-Threat-to-Women-and-Girls-Illustrated-1.pdf

    • Wow…Evergreen brought out all over again.

      Okay so like the university and the police and the courts have actually proven that that was a case of teens spying on a trans woman then told their transphobic religious fundie coach who through a fit.

      It was the trans woman that was the victim, and that police report has been debunked as much as radfems still pass it around vainly trying to fool folks.

  • @blahblahblah

    “There seems to be a very strange myth going around on the internet that no trans person has ever attacked a woman. There are hundreds of documented cases. There are a huge amount of people who claim to be trans women in prison already for violence against women. It is unethical BAD journalism to publish non facts.”

    Males who cross dress or identify as transgender offend at the same rate as other men. Even when you show them cases based on court records, they choose to live in their politically correct world.

    I noticed that my comment is “awaiting moderation”. In other words, they have to silence women if what we say isn’t politically correct.

    I wonder if this “progressive” website is going to act like mainstream news sources that go out of their way to censor the free speech of women.

    • A lot of comments await moderation even mine.

      You do know that trans exclusionary radical feminist pushed study you’re semi-sort of referring to has been debunked right by the authors?

  • “There is absolutely no documented incident of anyone of transgender experience attacking, molesting, or interacting in any way [that is inappropriate with]… any woman.”

    A 6’2 180 lb. transwoman punching out a woman’s five teeth for questioning his presence in the women’s restroom doesn’t count. Forget Patrick Hagan (aka Patty Lou Hagan). Richard, “Sherri”, Masbruch who tortured women with electrical wires before raping them doesn’t count. He had his penis when he tortured and raped these women, but he is a “woman” now, and was even sent to a women’s prison. Trans registered sex offenders, Sandy Jo Battista and Paula (Paula) Witherspoon doesn’t count, and neither does Ronny Darnell. Transwoman Synthia, “China”, Blast who helped to murder a 13 year old black girl, dump her body in a box, and set the box on fire doesn’t count. Transwoman serial killer Douglas, “Donna”, Perry doesn’t count, and neither does transgender wife killer Robert Kosilek.

    (1.) It’s a fact that cross dressing males dressed as women (skirts, makeup, etc.) and males identifying as transgender have been convicted of all sorts of crimes in women’s restrooms, women’s locker rooms, and women’s homeless shelters. This is a small sample, and it’s based on court records.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzwMJAFWLtQ

    More information here.

    http://nounequalrights.com/information/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/The-Threat-to-Women-and-Girls-Illustrated-1.pdf

    Reply

  • Wow.. Just the Sheer scale of the anti-transgender lies coming out in some of these comments.. So where to start..

    The ‘Transgender Predator Myth’
    In 41 years of laws, spanning over 200 cities in the US, about 15 states, and several nations, there are no examples of a transgender person using a bathroom law to commit a crime. Are transgender people capable of being violent criminals? Of course, just like like any other human being, but unless you put such anecdotes in context, claiming that because some of the millions of transgender people have been violent offenders, we should vilify everyone or ‘not take the risk’ is not just stupid from a risk assessment perspective, it’s disgusting from a discrimination/profiling perspective.

    And no ‘The they commit crimes the same rate’ ‘ isn’t even true.. If you want the truth. This talking point gets quoted from a swedish study which actually concludes the exact opposite (that transgender crime rates today is the same), and the author has even gone on record to reinforce the misunderstanding. Aside from this study, there is such a dearth of facts on the subject, because unfortunately there isn’t a consistent way that nations record transgender offenders so statistically breaking down the numbers on their crimes is currently virtually impossible. Another way people derive this talking point is to look at prison populations in places like California, where to confuse matters many of the ‘transgender’ population are more likely ‘gender non conforming’ gay men so the talking point gets even more obscure when the data sources you are plucking from are not only wildly inaccurate, but also disproportionately full of people whom have as their main target, men, not women!?
    The reality here is that anyone really stating ‘facts’ about the violence rate of transgender women is either ignorant or lying because they don’t exist with the quality of the data in 2016. However.. what you can say is that the facts *do* show that the prison population is neither disproportionately full of violent transgender women, nor as stated, in the four decade history of transgender equality laws, has any transgender person ever used that law to commit a violent crime.

    The ‘Non-transgender Predator Myth’ – which is where by giving transgender people access, supposedly it ‘opens the door’ for all the perverts to come in and do all kinds of evil. As if they have been waiting for such a law, or have been opportunists, deterred mostly but now encouraged by the ease in which they can do their crime?
    Except this too is nonsense, completely untrue, and proven so by history. Again, nobody has ever used a transgender law to pretend to be transgender to commit a crime. Ever…
    It’s usually at this point where someone manages to google Christopher Hambrick. He was a horrible non-transgender rapist that committed horrific crimes in Canada in 2012 by pretending to be transgender, to get into a womens shelter. At the time Ontario had a law known as ‘Toby’s Law’ which was a typical transgender non-discrimination ordinance. Except.. that this law wasn’t actually passed until after Hambrick’s crimes, so even then he managed to talk his way in, when there was no law.
    It is the *only* known example in the world of a case where someone pretended to be transgender. It was heinous.

    But the reality is this.. Once you start arguing for cisgender rights of ‘comfort’ and ‘feeling safe’, (especially when completely and utterly baseless, and predicated on stupid propaganda) over a transgender persons basic right to be able to socialize in the gender they identify with, and have no choice over, well at that point we are morally on the same level as telling Muslims that they cannot fly on the same planes as us.. and the rights of a transgender person only intersect with cisgender women because transgender women are vulnerable to the same predators, threats, and at a even higher rate. They experience the same sexism, the same employment prejudice, only at even worse rates

    Some problems are those of cisgender women alone, and transgender women alone, the same as many other categories of women often have unique issues they deal with. But anyone claiming that restrooms are an issue where rights are conflicting is either ignorant of the truth, or lying about statistical risk, context and history.

    • So boys will be boys? Men will rape women anyway, so no need for women to have boundaries or privacy?

      I reject your assertion that these new bathroom rules in local jurisdiction have not increased crime, because you can’t know that. The bathroom rules giving men and teenage boys unfettered access to bathrooms, locker rooms, jails, shelter, prisons and sports teams are new. Make violence is not, and transwomen are men, statistically as likely to commit violent crimes as other men. Additionally, a violation of women’s privacy and boundaries may not rise to the level of a crime, but it is unacceptable and it sucks. Find another way.

      • She never said that you are.
        And trans women are women.

        • Dude, give it up. You are just sad.

          • 1. Don’t assume gender…. “Dood”
            2. Bigots and pervs like you tend to get one sad.
            3. I’m actually usually pretty upbeat even when defending my LGBTQAI+ sibs from folks like yourself.

      • Edie,

        “I reject your assertion that these new bathroom rules in local jurisdiction have not increased crime, because you can’t know that.”

        But I can, and for several reasons..
        1) There is simply not a documented case in existence.. If you look at all the resources in this forum alone, you will see how desperate people are to find such an anecdote. They resort to posting links having nothing to do with transgender people or laws, and trying to imply that nevertheless this is ‘evidence’ that such laws are risky. The moment a documented case like this happens, it will be all over local right-wing and fundamentalist Christian media. There have been pathetic attempts to create hoaxes (e.g Evergreen College) but nobody can cite a single actual, real example.. Think about that.. 17 states.. over 200 cities.. several nations, and yet nobody can dig out a single quality anecdote linking a transgender ordinance to a crime.

        2) There have been surveys specifically of law enforcement chiefs in areas where these laws have been passed, and there are multiple searchable quotes, where they state quite simply that it has led to zero instances of one of these crimes. Media Matters is the usual link which collated all the reports.

        3) If you look at where all these laws have been passed, in each city/state and study the crime rate, none of them.. none of them.. saw spikes in sexual assault etc after the laws were passed. So statistical evidence backs up the Authorities, which backs up history.

        That’s how I know..

        “The bathroom rules giving men and teenage boys unfettered access to bathrooms, locker rooms, jails, shelter, prisons and sports teams are new. ”

        Not true.. Goodness sake.. For adults this started 41 years ago, and San Francisco/Los Angeles started this in 2004 over a decade ago. In fact their school districts were so successful with the transgender policies they helped expand this not just to the entire state of California but outside of the state. They wrote letters debunking many of the stupid myths and lies you see regurgitated here. Unfortunately.. hate and prejudice can be a powerful force so getting people to actually go and look for that truth themselves instead of listening to the lies can be a challenge. But simply look online for the letter from LAUSD to Jefferson County School District in Kentucky.
        There are nearly ten million children in California that since 2014 have gone to school with these policies daily. There have been no real problems, and nobody has reported a crime, which are the same as they were before this happened. No sexual assaults, no ‘peeping toms’ etc It doesn’t happen. It is almost impossible for such a policy to allow this happen, if you don’t eat myths and talking points.

        The truth is that nobody’s privacy is violated. But these arguments are really not about privacy most of the time. If you listen carefully to the language, while arguing the ‘Right to Privacy based on ‘sex” versus ‘The right to assert ones Gender Identity in a Social environment’ is an interesting debate, for most people it isn;t some intellectual exercise in the intersection of one person’s rights with another.. Instead it is the age old trope of ‘Why should we accept you, when there are lots of us and few of you’. Otherwise people would never be talking about ‘what about the 99% of other students’ etc because sheer numbers wouldn’t matter when it comes to Civil Rights.

        The reality is that many people are still ignorant to transgender people. Lots of people on here are trying to fuel myths about ‘fetishists’, ‘pedophiles’, ‘mentally ill’ etc and that ‘Gender Identity doesn’t exist’. But it does not change the fact they do, and gender identity in the brain is what defines us as women, and men, by ‘gender’, not our genitals, and sometimes, but very rarely, people may even not be so easily defined in a gender binary. If you don’t accept that, then you never accept a transgender person has any ‘Rights’ in the first place so any subsequent attempt to discuss the issue is futile until that is resolved.

    • Absolutely and given the repeat links there’s a lot of sock puppets accounts being used. Seriously the anti trans posts here look like a members list of GIW, Hungerford Games, Stop-transmisogyny 2.0 and the literal plethora of others that they are all part of…or the majority are.

      Stunning how persistent they are in their bigotry.

      • Bigotry??

        A woman, and others, fears for the safety of their daughters, granddaughters and wives and now they’re bigots??

        What a POS you are..

        • It’s pretty much all unfounded and debunked Bobby, these links and stories are cherry picket for wording and anything close to be related to trans folks and they do this for their living.

    • “In 41 years of laws, spanning over 200 cities in the US, about 15 states, and several nations, there are no examples of a transgender person using a bathroom law to commit a crime.”

      Oh, so now it’s “used a bathroom law” when in fact, these laws are all of them fairly new. The fact is, a 1988 study in the Bulletin of the American Academy of Psychiatric Law, which was conducted over eight years, concluded that transsexualism is the single paraphilia most frequently associated with violent sexual assault. The reason theyw ere not “using a bathroom law” as cover for their crimes is that such laws have been mostly nonexistent until very recently.

  • They have to “moderate” what women say on this “progressive” website.

  • Pingback: Intersectionality – Callan

  • It’s good this woman is leaving the position she was in. She wasn’t suited for it anyway, obviously.

    Oh you have to do a little work to explain to your kids about someone who is trans? Poor Muffin.

    Seriously, get over yourself. You were supposed to be part of an organization to defend rights, not ignore them. Just because you don’t like people who are trans doesn’t mean they don’t deserve the right to even go to the bathroom hassle free. Which right now they *don’t*. A trans woman is more likely to be hassled for just needing to pee than anyone and the proof is right here in the comments. There are even “normal” (and really, what’s normal anyway?) women trying to go into the bathroom being denied that right because “They don’t look like a woman”. Or talk like one, or sound like one.

    To me, excuses like that are indicative of the REAL issue – women are no longer recognizable, they don’t conform to the assumed standard as humans who should wear dresses or “pretty things”, have long hair or ‘feminine hair’, high voices and be all prim and proper. It means we are now different, varied, real.

    And there are some people – both women and men – who can’t handle it.

    I don’t fear trans people who want to go to the bathroom. I do fear ignorant people who have no compassion for their fellow humans. I do fear these so called “Women” who think they know all and are the be all of what Women should be. I am a woman, have been all my life, and I recognize transwomen are women too but like what happens sometimes, genetics twisted up before birth and got things wrong.

    “Oh, what about the men using dresses or fake being trans-” Please. Show me UNBIASED proof first, and we’ll talk at least. I will state beforehand though that there are “bad people” everywhere, and the trans community isn’t free from it.

    Neither is the “Women’s Movement” free of it’s rotten tarts.

    • It’s typical of sociopaths to call people “ignorant” when they balk at asking little girls to shower next to biological men.

      Just how young would a girl need to be next to a biological man in a public shower before your conscience might kick in?

      • Justin… we see you you nasty little carbuncle.

        https://www.facebook.com/gaynotqueer/

        https://twitter.com/whoiscis

        https://whoiscis.wordpress.com/

        They’re a former dirty little bigot shill that used to cozy up to the fake goth.

      • No one’s asking little girls to shower next to biological men. Most women’s showers I know of are separate and stall like so no one sees anything, not even other women. Just like using the toilet to pee. I would call ANYONE who is a non-parent showering next to a young child – girl or boy – just a tad “creepy”, regardless of what locker room is being used. Also, as far as I know, a woman doesn’t go into a shower – or bathroom – to look at other people. They go in to do their ‘thing’ and leave. And, surprise, it doesn’t change with transwomen either. They just want to pee, shower, whatever, and leave.

        So are you calling me a sociopath to be for the right of people to use the bathroom? I’m all for people who already *break* current laws in place trying to perv on women – or men – being held accountable. But being afraid of a trans person just wanting to do what they need to and then leave isn’t on the list.

        Just because transwomen aren’t what you think of as women, doesn’t make it true. Like I said, a genetic tweak mismatched physical appearance to actual self. That a transoman has male outward appearances isn’t her fault. I’m sure, if you actually talked to any trans person, you’d learn that they have serious issues with their bodily appearance – called disphoria – and would have rather not have male genitals or female gentiles. While I’m sure you don’t want to imagine what it would be like, I have empathy to them and admit I can’t imagine what it’d be like to have every second of every day something that reminds you that you are not in the right body. All thanks to some tweak while in the womb. Punishing them for that isn’t right or fair.

  • Masturbation fantasies are the basis of “female gender identity” in nearly all males who claim to be women! “Gender identity” is fake, just an alibi so they can avoid embarrassment.

    https://autogynephiliatruth.wordpress.com/2015/05/03/gender-identity-is-just-an-alibi-to-hide-male-embarrassment-about-their-autogynephilia/

    Think about it. Bruce Jenner was a prime example of male physical athleticism and a top specimen of white male privilege in the USA. At age 65 he admitted having a secret lifelong addiction to wearing women’s clothes, especially lingerie. He told a couple of his wives about it. He admits that he sometimes wore a bra under his male-style business suit. What’s missing from this description? How about the intense masturbation he performed after each cross-dressing episode, and even every time he thought about such episodes. And gender enthusiasts are trying to say this guy is a woman???? He’s an absolutely classic transvestic fetishist, an autogynephile, just like nearly all male to fake “female” transgenders. Totally standard fetishistic transvestite.

    Should these men be allowed in women’s spaces? Hell no.

    • “Think about it. ”

      That would be great! A lovely idea!? But it doesn’t work very well when your source material is non-stop propaganda, and you don’t know the difference between applying critical thinking and confirmation bias.

      *yawn*

      N.B Hello.. I feel a slew of ‘Proof by anecdote’ coming this way? Or maybe selective cherry-picking of ‘Authorities’ like Paul McHugh? Go!

      • @ “Lauren”: You are such a delusional fantasist, and you know it.

        Enjoy your autogynephilia, but stay the hell out of the women’s restroom.

        • And here’s the radfem Ablism along with the boosting and backing of 2 old cis white privileged men with a trans chaser fetish. They’re right there beside McHugh…right wing faith based bigotry and Janice Raymond who is just as creepy and fetishizing to trans women including her having this hurt them shame fetish.

          These radfems, trans exclusionary radical feminists, right wing politicos, right wing fundementalists…they’re all cut from the same cloth.

          Pervy, creepy, nasty, controlling bigots that get off on their own hate fantasies and narcissism.

          • There are three things that I would like to respond to. First, based on thousands of years of history and crime statistics, women have legitimate reasons to be suspicious of males in our private spaces. Women aren’t raped by a “gender identity”. Ask a woman who was raped if she was raped by something called “gender identity”. When mainstream news sources say, “transgender bathrooms”, etc., they are essentially erasing the real issue of male violence. Suddenly, everything disappears as if male violence doesn’t exist, and has never existed. When women see biological males in the women’s locker room, especially when they are exposing their male genitals like Colleen Francis, they aren’t thinking “gender identity”. This is so insulting to the female sex that I really can’t find the words to describe how it makes me feel.

            Second, as to trans exclusionary radical feminists that bailysummers refers to, this is a small sample of the deeply disturbing threats that women have experienced. Warning! This is very disturbing, but people need to know the extent to which some trans/queer identified males will go to in an attempt to bully and silence women.

            https://terfisaslur.com/

            “How Terf Works”

            http://www.feministcurrent.com/2014/07/29/how-terf-works/

            Third, this is also a human right to privacy issue. No one can prove that a male’s “gender identity” is more important than a woman’s right to privacy.

          • Transgender males who insist they are ‘women’ (and even crazier, ‘lesbians’) are some of the creepiest, perv-iest, most narcissistic people I have ever met. And I have met plenty. They obsess fetishistically about the stupidest stereotypes of ‘femininity,’ as though this somehow makes them ‘women.’ Women and girls are not safe around these men.

          • @S. TERF has a history directly from feminism.
            You have a computer if you’re on here you can use google.
            You’re also the first to use the term here on this page so that’s on you as well.
            I’m silencing zero people here just earnestly pointing out the very specific demographics attacking trans women and their political alignments.

            @LM Please get the terminology right trans males are men.

            To both… Othering is also a women’s privacy issue.

      • Since other people brought up autogynephilia, I would like to follow up on this subject. This is something that trans activists deny, but there is really something to it. They just don’t want to admit it. So, here goes. Research that goes back decades shows that paraphilias are more common in males. If people aren’t sure what paraphilias are, google “Gregory Phillip Schwartz”, “Stefonknee Wolscht”, “Riley Kilo – adult baby”, and “Colonel Russell Williams”. There are numerous cases of voyeurs cross dressing to secretly photograph women in women’s restrooms. When I google “bathroom voyeur” there are millions of websites that cater to these men.

        What does this have to do with “gender identity” and restrooms? A sexual fetish is not a civil right, and it should not grant males access to women’s restrooms and women’s locker rooms.

        Watch this video. This is a divorced father of 7 kids who identifies as a 6 year old girl, and he has a special “daddy” he met in a fetish club. With men like Stefonknee, it’s difficult to know exactly where the “gender identity” begins and the fetish ends. We must automatically respect their “gender identity”, even though everything that we see with our own eyes says this is just a guy with some kinky sexual fetish. I don’t care if he likes to pretend that he is a 6 year old girl, but it shouldn’t give him the right to use the women’s restroom. We can’t talk about sexual fetishes even when it’s staring us in the face.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpK1gf-rw5s

        • Sure…….Those few mentions represent all trans women but here’s you touting a broken and frankly full on fetish supporting ideology set for with 2 old white privileged trans chasers.

          Radfems supporting the worst things possible to attack trans people…actually trans women.

          You know that Blanchard and Co. are considered crap right, 60-70’s outdated inaccurate crap right and that no one that’s credible outside of 2nd wave extremist trans exclusive radical feminists ever reference it…well folks like you and Justin Allen Norwood.

    • In addition to the fact that cross dressing males and males identified as transgender have been convicted of crimes inside women’s restrooms, women’s locker rooms, and women’s homeless shelters, there is also the touchy subject of paraphilias. Research that goes back decades shows that paraphilias (voyeurism, transvestic fetishmism, pedophilia, etc.) are more common in males. For some males, cross dressing is definitely a sexual fetish. I’m not saying all males, but it’s certainly true for some men who cross dress. The defense attorney said that the transvestic fetishism was caused by drug use, and this is why he got high and stole a pink Barbie outfit. Women don’t get sexually aroused by putting on men’s pants, but some males do get sexually aroused by trying on women’s clothes. They can keep denying it, but it’s true.

      http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Tutu-Clad-Assault-Suspect-Suffers-Tranvestic-Fetishism-Attorney-Gregory-Schwartz-Big-Lots–288752051.html

      Just within the last couple of years, we have seen at least two males claiming “gender identity” who obviously have one or more sexual fetishes. I could care less how Stefonknee Wolscht or the man calling himself Carlottta Sklodowska get their freak on, but a sexual fetish shouldn’t grant a male access to women’s restrooms and locker rooms. A fetish is not a civil right if it infringes on the rights of others. With men like Stefonknee and Carlotta Sklodowska, it’s hard to tell where the “gender identity” begins and the fetish ends. That is, if the “gender identity” is even real. If people really believe that Stefonknee Wolscht has a sincere “gender identity”, then they aren’t playing with a full deck so to speak. Seriously, do people believe that a 50 year old divorced father of 7 kids who identifies as a 6 year old girl, and is really into age play and all sorts of kink with his special “daddy” has some sort of authentic “gender identity”. Isn’t it more likely that Stefonknee and Carlotta are just males with kinky sexual fetishes who are hiding behind gender identity laws? Again, I don’t care how kinky men are, but it doesn’t grant them special privileges, especially to invade women’s intimate spaces.

      As to Jenner, in this video, he actually jokes about sneaking into his 10 year old daughter’s room to play with her clothes. How is a 6 foot tall male going to fit into a 10 year old girl’s clothes? So, what was he doing sneaking into the 10 year old daughter’s room. No, nothing autogynephile about it. I agree that Jenner fits the profile of a classic autogynephile. That is, a late transitioning heterosexual male. The belief that Jenner always felt like a “woman” is ridiculous. He is a heterosexual father of 6 kids by 3 different wives who enjoys wearing dresses as a sexual thrill. It doesn’t make him a woman.

      http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Caitlyn-Jenner-at-Chicago-House-Event-347217932.html

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  • People need to figure it out. Look at this comment section. Look around at other websites. Listen to people. Women do not want “men identifying as women” in the same bathroom if they have not transitioned yet. Bathrooms are sex-segregated. Not gender-segregated. Not feeling-segregated. Not clothing-segregated. SEX-segregated.

    If gender is not related to sex, then why do so many TG folks feel compelled to alter their genitals in an attempt to make them match their perceived gender? You cannot change your sex. It is physically impossible. It is not bigoted for people to be aware of this. If someone does not feel their gender and their sex match, it is not incumbent upon everyone else in the world to share this opinion. It is not somehow less bigoted to try to force them to do so. Bigotry in the name of a moral high ground is still bigotry – no matter who is doing it.

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  • At least one of these ACLU people came to their senses. I am glad she is standing up for the rights for all.

  • The question everyone should ask themselves is; what actual harm were the transwomen doing to other people while using the restroom? If they were harming ciswomen (cis meaning straight heterosexual, it doesn’t mean anything sinister commenter above) by just being who they were then the issue harming the ciswomen is simple fear of the unknown.

    I know change is scary, but deal. When people panic the ones panicking are usually the ones abusing other people’s civil rights.

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  • These men who claim to have “gender dysphoria” and call themselves “transwomen” do indeed have a sexual fetish. The DSM V (APA, 2013 p452-459) says under the “gender dysphoria” category: “Adolescents and adults with late-onset gender dysphoria frequently engage in transvestic behavior with sexual excitement.” And “Additional predisposing factors under consideration, especially in individuals with late-onset gender dysphoria (adolescence, adulthood), include habitual fetishistic transvestism developing into autogynephilia (i.e., sexual arousal associated with the thought or image of oneself as a woman) and other forms of more general social, psychological, or developmental problems.” It also says about women who are diagnosed with “gender dysphoria”: “Natal females with the late-onset form do not have co-occurring transvestic behavior with sexual excitement.”

    These men clearly start off with transvestic disorder according to the DSM V itself, then this fetish progresses into autogynephilia and these men want to live their fetish full time. The DSM V (APA, 2013 p702-704) says under the transvestic disorder category:
    “The presence of autogynephilia increases the likelihood of gender dysphoria in men with transvestic disorder.” “Some cases of transvestic disorder progress to gender dysphoria. The males in these cases, who may be indistinguishable from others with transvestic disorder in adolescence 
    or early childhood, gradually develop desires to remain in the female role for longer pe­riods and to feminize their anatomy.”

    These heterosexual/bisexual men, who are diagnosed as having “gender dysphoria” and who consider themselves “transwomen” have a sexual fetish by the DSM V’s own admission. They have let this fetish take over their lives and want the rest of us to accommodate it, they also have other “social, psychological and developmental problems” according to the the DSM V. Considering that women do not have this fetish and as the DSM V says it is not women’s reason for “transitioning”, why should these men be considered women at all and not just mentally ill men with a sexual fetish that has got out of hand?

    A cohort study carried out in Sweden found, even males who had undergone full surgery in order to appear as the opposite sex, still retained a male pattern crime rate, including for violent crime (Dhejne et al., 2011). Incidentally, it also found no improvement in the risk of suicide in this group after surgery. So all this BS about males who call themselves “transwomen” being somehow different to other men is just that; BS. It also shatters the “we must transition or we’ll commit suicide” mantra also, condsidering there was no improvement in the rates of suicide after surgery.

    These men by making their fetish into a civil rights issue, they are in effect starting a new mens rights movement, who’s sole goal is to make mens sexual desires trump females right to say no to males sense of sexual entitlement.

    References

    American Psychiatric Association. (2013), Diagnostic and Statisti­cal Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition. Arlington, VA, American Psychiatric Associa­tion.

    Dhejne C, Lichtenstein P, Boman M, Johansson ALV, Långström N, Landén M.(2011), Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden. PLoS ONE 6(2): e16885. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

    • “A cohort study carried out in Sweden found, even males who had undergone full surgery in order to appear as the opposite sex, still retained a male pattern crime rate, including for violent crime (Dhejne et al., 2011). Incidentally, it also found no improvement in the risk of suicide in this group after surgery. So all this BS about males who call themselves “transwomen” being somehow different to other men is just that; BS. It also shatters the “we must transition or we’ll commit suicide” mantra also, condsidering there was no improvement in the rates of suicide after surgery.”

      Yeah, hate to break it to you, but this study is so, so not what you’re representing it to be. In fact you’ve fallen into the same use of it as others have – as an anti-trans piece. Which it is not, and that’s from the Author of the research herself.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/myths-about-transition-regrets_b_6160626.html

      In fact, your statement that ““we must transition or we’ll commit suicide”” is totally ignorant. The reasons a trans person may suicide even after surgery can be varied and complex. No trans person is threatening suicide if they don’t transition; fun fact, there are some trans people who DON’T transition, for their own reasons. That does not de-legitimize them, either. It just means they recognize that surgery may not be the best option for them.

      As for the DSM V and the suggested pages, there’s also counters that explain that the DSM *regressed* when it came up with the new diagnoses and as such do a disservice to trans people and gender neutral people. While it may be the ‘psych bible’ for all things mental health wise, that doesn’t make it perfect either. It’s a guideline and like any medical book, can be outdated very quickly thanks to new researches. For the doctor or clinicitian using the book, they realize I’m sure there is more out there to research when it comes to patients with gender issues. Unlike some – yourself for example, IrnBru – they have no problem looking further into the issue. You only go so far as to fit your one sided opinion and that’s all. The good thing is the reality is not as one sided or as ‘simple’ as you think.

      • Facts are facts. Just because one of the six researchers involved does not like the outcome of that study, it still does not change the facts it presents. Trying to twist it to make it suite your agenda will not work. Anyone is welcome to look up that study and see what it says in black and white.

        The DSM does indeed have it’s faults, where it is correct is in it’s description of behaviours that cluster together. Adolescent & adult males who receive a diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” show signs of transvestic fetish disorder that has developed into autogynephilia. This is observable, a late “transitioning” well known TV personality has publicly talked about how he used to steal his own daughters clothing etc. There is a well known boxing promoter in the UK who also fits this profile. Both these men have been married for years, fathered children and been in very “macho” occupations. Both these men fit the profile of autogynephile. There are two film director brothers, one is heavily into the S&M scene and is known as a “submissive”. It is also known (& again it’s in the DSM V) that men with transvestic fetish disorder also have masochistic sexual desires. There are many sites where men discuss their transvestic disorder and speak about how it progresses to autogynephilia, one only has to look and they can find this out for themselves. It is futile to pretend that this motive does not exist.

        The fact is we all know some men have transvestic fetish disorder, we also know that it sometimes progresses into augynephilia and they then want to stay in the “female role” for longer periods and to “feminize their anatomy”. Men like you want to pretend that it is some kind of spiritual thing you are doing, or that you are daring and “progressive”, but you are not. You rely on conservative, misogynistic stereotypes i.e. wearing makeup, wigs, dresses, being submissive, etc and say these things are innate in women’s brains, that you have a woman’s brain trapped in a male body. That is just conservative, sexist pseudo science that males use to try and justify keeping females oppressed. White men tried to do the same thing to black people with the “negro brain” experiments at the turn of the last century. The fact that males like you have adopted it as a mantra, shows that the “trans” movement is nothing more than a deeply misogynistic mens rights movement.

        By the way it is right that males who claim to be women, do often use the suicide narrative in order to gain sympathy and manipulate people into giving them what they want. It is very similar to what other abusive men do to get their own way. There is a high proportion of men with transvestic fetish disorder who die while practicing autoerotic asphyxiation (the DSM V also states this fact). Since we know that many men who gain a diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” have this fetish, this perhaps should be looked at a cause of death in at least some cases, rather than suicide.

        Yes some males do not “transition” at all, that is because they have transvestite fetish disorder, that has not gone as far as autogynephilia yet. They want to assume a “female persona” for a sexual thrill then discard it, and resume a “male persona” when it suites them. This is so they can indulge their sexual fetish and still keep every bit of male privilege that they can. Tell me again how this is not a mans rights movement.

        • “Men like you…”

          Right there you lost me for any minute validity you might have claimed.

          I am not a man.

          I am a woman, and grew up from a girl to be a woman. Your assumption that I am male is based on what, that I defend transwomen?

          Fact: there are what you would consider “real” women who have no problem defending trans people – men or women – out there. Just because we do doesn’t make us less women.

          People – men and women – don’t fit into little boxes, nor should we. Louise – and since you assume I’m a man despite my name being Elaine (a female name) should I assume you are a man since YOUR name is male at least in part? – your obsession with the transwomen issue being some sort of fetish and using a known study to not even be ABOUT what you think it is shows you are just reaching for anything to prove your point.

          Just outright say it: you are afraid of transwomen, you hate the idea of nature getting things wrong and a woman having a male body happens, and all of that just terrifies you. At least admit it because in all truth I don’t know why else you would care otherwise about any of this.

          Safe zones and protecting women and girls? That’s a smoke screen and you know it. That’s the excuse men use to be abusive to transwomen and transgirls.

          I’ll say this, in closing to you.

          The study – ALL medical studies list the lead/main investigator/scientist/doctor FIRST. This is Cecilia Dhejne’s investigation, she had the lead, and in this case the most authority to say what this study was about. So the fact she DENOUNCES what you and others claim it to be has every bit of legitimacy to it, more than just your word and sayso.

          The DSM – changed in it’s regard to sexuality issues and while at one time supported a more diverse way of looking at GD and other Transgender issues, now it is less. Why, who knows, but there are those out there questioning this and working to fix it so it better explains things with the thought of trans persons in mind.

          The only fetish going on here is you and your focus on it as an excuse to legitimize your hate and support of harm to fellow human beings. Your lack of empathy is sad and if you are indeed a woman, you are one of those sad, sad types that our ancestors would be ashamed of.

          • One of the reasons they often have multiple people involved is to try to ensure that the results are not twisted to suite the researchers desire. (This is not always fool proof, particularly in “experiments”, studies etc that seek to justify the inferior social status of others like “brain sex” and the “negro brain” experiments etc). Considering that anyone who publishes studies, books, newspaper articles, even blogs, receives harassment, including death and rape threats from trans activists, it is hardly surprising that many try to placate these men in order to try and escape their narcissistic rage.

            For an example of how these men (autogynephiles) react when presented with facts and information they do not like one does not have to look far. Janice Raymond, was subject to harassment from these men, when she wrote about how the ideology of transsexualism harms women. Bailey was harassed by these men after he wrote about heterosexual mens autogynephillic reasons for claiming they are women. They threatened not only him, but also his family, including his children. Prof Sheila Jefferys, who wrote the book gender hurts and who has spoken out publicly about how “transgender” ideology is deeply damaging to females, has received so many threats, that she was advised to remove her name plate off her office door at the university she worked at. Alice Dreger (who is supportive of transgender ideology), but realises that autogynephilia exists, and has written about it, has also been targeted. Many journalists have been similarly threatened with death and rape for writing about how the “transgender” ideology is harmful to females. The trans activists shamelessly persecute these people (who are mainly women), and put pressure on the papers they work for to get them to apologise or retract what they have written. They have also targeted Dr’s and got them fired from their jobs if they refuse to do what the trans activists demand, as is the case with Dr Zucker. Many of these people are under such pressure from trans activists that they often try and alleviate these mens narcissistic rage, by saying & doing various things to try and placate them. I do not see anything different in what the researcher involved in the Swedish study is doing. It’s hardly surprising that they would say anything to get these unbalanced men off their backs. Not to mention that anyone who questions the legitimacy of the transgender ideology in this new McCarthy era is vilified by the mainstream media, and are often subject to slander & character assignations.

            This is because far from being an oppressed group, the majority of transactivists are wealthy, white, autogynephilic heterosexual males with power and influence, who have never been refused anything they want. Hence they display such self entitlement and narcissism.

            Sorry to disappoint you but, I do buy your assertion that you were born female. The only people who would be so fixated on arguing that males can become females are males. There are many naive youngsters who have been brainwashed by queer theory, and of course there are women who do not fully understand the issues involved, that support trans ideology. This is usually because they think most “transwomen” are self hating gay men and they have piety for them. When they realise they are only a small fraction of men who claim a trans identity, and that the majority are heterosexual autogynephilic men they soon change their tune.

            Lol, believe it or not people rarely use their real names on the internet. Doesn’t matter what your name is anyway, it still doesn’t make you a female: girl/woman. Have you never heard the Johnny Cash song a boy named sue? This is what we are talking about, a woman is more than a name and a set of stereotypes, men like you can not accept that. A woman could call herself Steve, remove her breasts and inject hormones into herself, she still would be a female human: woman. A man can call himself Elaine, take hormones, obtain silicone implants, pop on a dress and plaster himself in make up, even mutilate his genitals, it does not make him any less of a man. It certainly does not make him an adult female human: woman, it is extremely degrading to females to pretend it does. We are woman because we are born female, just like we are human, as we are born human, “feelings”, or whether we adhere to sex role stereotypes does not alter this. “Brain sex” is woman hating pseudo science, so no there is no such thing as being born in the “wrong” body, it no more exists then being born the wrong race or the wrong species etc.

            I have explained at length why transgender ideology is harmful to females, and is deeply misogynistic. That you do not want to accept these facts, just shows how self entitled you are. If you had any ethics whatsoever you would accept what I have said and work on changing your behaviour, instead of trying to manipulate women into giving into you, so you can practice your autogynephilia unfettered.

          • @Lou

            Cause, you’re a man. Cause you can’t prove you’re a woman.

            THANK YOU! OMG this is the funniest stuff I have ever read; all your replies are.

            Seriously. Your excuses and ‘reasoning’ of how you know I’m male (not, otherwise you can tell Auntie Flow, who is visiting right now, to go away plzkthnx, cause she’s visiting the wrong person) are just… so outrageous. Even if you had validity in everything else, that was just…

            Priceless.

            Again, thank you. That was awesome.

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  • I do not believe her story. Trans women do not call attention to themselves in the restroom. Nor does anyone’s “discomfort” with us qualify as a reason to exclude us from the public space.

    I’m calling this woman a liar, period. Her story stinks of desperation and propaganda.

  • I didn’t see this comment anywhere below so I’ll go ahead and post it myself:

    Homosexuality, transgenderism, polyamory etc etc are sins. The Holy Bible is plain about it.
    You disagree? Too bad. God doesn’t need, nor does he seek, your approval.

    Keep trying to introduce new sexual concepts and see where it gets you.

    • The moment you bring religion into the conversation you start to really ‘spice things up’. So I’ll ask…

      Which version of God and which God?

      Which Bible?

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  • So here is a thought for you. Look on familywatchdog.org. Now imagine that that might not even represent 25% to half of those that have or are capable of committing a crime that YOU, much less your wife, sister, daughter, mother, or cousin have to worry about. The reason why I am against a male being in the women’s restroom is that I or any other male does not belong there. I do not want to be there, but, I will if I am asked to escort someone in there for their piece of mind, I also will not feel comfortable either. So, as a result of these legislation measures, you will see a lot of men where they shouldn’t be. They will be there for protection of who they are with. Why? Because they are aware of pervs out there that are willing to say they are something they are not to gain access to where they normally wouldn’t be allowed. So go ahead and pass whatever you are wanting to pass. More men will be where they shouldn’t be as a result.

    • You said: “So, as a result of these legislation measures, you will see a lot of men where they shouldn’t be. They will be there for protection of who they are with. Why? Because they are aware of pervs out there that are willing to say they are something they are not to gain access to where they normally wouldn’t be allowed.”

      My question is, if this is the case, why aren’t you escorting women now? The pervs are still out there, they can still try to get into women’s places and it’s still against the law for them to do so.

      The only perv right now will be the men, or women, peeking in to see just what genitalia a person has and if they’re sitting or standing, as if they have a right to know.

      • There are men saying they are something they are not in order to gain access to somewhere they should not be. Yes, men with autogynephilia: an extreme form of transvestic fetish disorder, are a group of such men. It is woman hating to let these men into women’s spaces, they have a sexual fetish. Saying as you are that women should just ignore these men and go about their business and let these men enjoy their fetish without challenge, is the worst case of pure male entitlement and misogyny that we have seen in many decades in the west. Men do not and should not have a “right” to indulge their sexual fetishes at the expense of women and girls right to refuse to be part of that sexual fetish. Women and girls should not be forced to be complicit in a mans sexual fetish. What about this is so hard for you to understand? It sounds like plain old male sexual entitlement to everyone who gives a damn about females.

        Your argument about males already abusing and perving on females, only reinforces what we are saying. Males have a high rate of sexual fetishes and incidences of committing sexual assault against women. So why would any ethical person want to make it easier for males to indulge in their sexual abuse, voyeurism, flashing etc against females, by making it legal for males who claim they “feel” a certain way to access females? At the moment most women/girls can rest assured that if she sees a suspicious man/boy in the bathroom, etc, regardless of how he is dressed, she can alert the authorities and have the man/boy physically ejected and perhaps prosecuted. Under the laws your pushing for a woman would not be able to exercise her right and get the man physically ejected and prosecute him. As the man only has to say he “feels” like a woman & display conservative, sexist stereotypes of what he thinks a woman is, and he has free reign to carry on and do whatever he wants. It is only when he actually assaults a female, that a woman/girl will be able to prosecute him.

        If you are ok with that, then what is problem with men in dresses who “feel” like they are women: “transwomen” using the mens facilities? As any man who abuses a “transwoman” can also be prosecuted by the law after an assault has taken place. You men are basically saying you do not want to be at risk from abuse from males in male only spaces, but it is ok for women to be at risk from you in women only places. This is a law (& indeed a movement) you are pushing for that only benefits males, to the detriment of females. Moreover it is clearly just about gaining access to women’s spaces as it pleases your fetish, or you would see the obvious contradiction here. And would, at the very least, agree to use a separate single changing room or single use bathroom. That this is not acceptable to you shows that is more about confirming your “identity” and indulging your fetish, than any real worry about abuse to “transwomen” from using male facilities.

        • “There are men saying they are something they are not”…

          No.

          Trans women are women. Period.

          “Saying as you are that women should just ignore these men and go about their business and let these men enjoy their fetish without challenge, is the worst case of pure male entitlement and misogyny that we have seen in many decades in the west.”

          Male entitlement would be allowing any man into women’s washrooms or locker rooms just because they are men and say so. We’re not discussing that. This is women who want to use the bathrooms or locker rooms.

          “Men do not and should not have a “right” to indulge their sexual fetishes at the expense of women and girls right to refuse to be part of that sexual fetish. Women and girls should not be forced to be complicit in a mans sexual fetish. What about this is so hard for you to understand? It sounds like plain old male sexual entitlement to everyone who gives a damn about females.”

          They shouldn’t, and they don’t. This isn’t about fetishes. What is so hard about this for YOU to understand? Anyone who gives a damn about ANYONE – male or female or whatever gender – knows this isn’t about “plain old male sexual entitlement” like you’re Chicken Little-ing, but rather human right and decency.

          “Your argument about males already abusing and perving on females, only reinforces what we are saying. Males have a high rate of sexual fetishes and incidences of committing sexual assault against women. So why would any ethical person want to make it easier for males to indulge in their sexual abuse, voyeurism, flashing etc against females, by making it legal for males who claim they “feel” a certain way to access females?”

          No it doesn’t, because again, we’re not talking men here, we’re talking women. “Male fetish, Male fetish” – broken record much? Men aren’t the only ones with fetishes, stop using it as an excuse to hate.

          Wow; you really don’t get it, do you? It’s not just a “feeling” nor is it just a “feeling to access females”. Why is it you and others like you are so certain this is about men seeking access for harm to women? What if it IS just about women wanting to use the washroom? Sometimes things are as simple as they seem, you know.

          “At the moment most women/girls can rest assured that if she sees a suspicious man/boy in the bathroom, etc, regardless of how he is dressed, she can alert the authorities and have the man/boy physically ejected and perhaps prosecuted. Under the laws your pushing for a woman would not be able to exercise her right and get the man physically ejected and prosecute him. As the man only has to say he “feels” like a woman & display conservative, sexist stereotypes of what he thinks a woman is, and he has free reign to carry on and do whatever he wants. It is only when he actually assaults a female, that a woman/girl will be able to prosecute him.”

          And they still can. Actually because of the hate of this law, WOMEN are being refused entry into bathrooms because they “look like men”. THAT is what this law has done, so where is your defense of them? This law is giving people – men and women – the excuse they need to act out against people different from them, different in appearance. Books and covers; books and covers.

          What transwomen want is just a place to go pee without having to fear being hurt and abused, just like other women. Not all transwomen do stereotypical female things, either. That in itself is a stereotype. Your continual use of “he” reinforces to me that you have bought into the male idea of what society is; shame.

          “If you are ok with that, then what is problem with men in dresses who “feel” like they are women: “transwomen” using the mens facilities? As any man who abuses a “transwoman” can also be prosecuted by the law after an assault has taken place. You men are basically saying you do not want to be at risk from abuse from males in male only spaces, but it is ok for women to be at risk from you in women only places. This is a law (& indeed a movement) you are pushing for that only benefits males, to the detriment of females.”

          The fact you ASK what the problem is shows exactly what the problem with you and others like you is: you’re being purposefully blind. Do you not know, really and truly, what happens to transwomen who are forced into male washrooms? They are degraded WORSE than if a “true woman” as you would call it were to go into those same places. They are abused, victimized, or can even be killed and NOT just because they are women, but because they DARE to be free to BE women, to show they are women, and deny the fact they were ever ‘male’ to begin with. You and yours are advocating that – for people to die – just because of your opinion that they are men, which they are not. Since real transwomen – and not some man faking it to prove a point – just want to use the washroom and go about their business, assault from a transwomen against another woman has yet to happen, despite the lies claiming otherwise out there. Transwomen – the ‘real deal’ and not male fakers – go through more stuff to PROVE that they’re women than you obviously care to know about and it’s NOT “just feelings”. Having a transwoman in a bathroom doesn’t do anything but have another woman in the bathroom.

          “Moreover it is clearly just about gaining access to women’s spaces as it pleases your fetish, or you would see the obvious contradiction here.”

          There’s that word again – are you sure it’s these fictitious people with the fetish and not you??? As it is, no contradiction what so ever.

          “And would, at the very least, agree to use a separate single changing room or single use bathroom. That this is not acceptable to you shows that is more about confirming your “identity” and indulging your fetish, than any real worry about abuse to “transwomen” from using male facilities.”

          Actually, that sounds like a GREAT idea, for EVERYONE! A single use bathroom for everyone. No multiple stalls, no multiple urinals, no mirrors for the “girls” to gather at and primp and adjust their makeup, hair and bras, no needing to talk about stupid stuff in the *bathroom* of all places… just a toilet, a sink, a small mirror, go do your business and be done!

          That, that would be awesome and thankfully there are some places who have that situation, because they’re small enough that anything bigger is stupid. Unfortunately this won’t happen everywhere because for some reason we as a society think having “multiple” open bathrooms is a good thing.

          I am going to assume – and correct me if I’m wrong – that your use of the word “your” above “your “identity” and indulging your fetish” is meant in the wider sense and not specifically for me personally. It sounds like you mean me specifically though so you’ll excuse if I take it as such.

          I am a woman. Born and raised. I’m proud to be a woman… sometimes. Sometimes I hate it and issues like this are why. Women are more than just make-up and hair and looks – you know, the stereotype. They are strong, fierce, kind, caring… or we’re supposed to be. We have the emotions we do because we were made to be more emotional, so we could connect more with those around us. We were worshiped as Daughters of the Mother Goddess because women brought forth life from our bodies. This and other reasons are why I love being a woman.

          But the petty, backbiting, backstabbing, snide, and more rude things I could say stuff that women do makes me hate being a woman. This hate and lack of even emapthic regard for fellow humans – even if you don’t agree to their being women – is what I hate about women. The total lack of understanding of the reality and truth of what a transwoman is and what they go through makes me disgusted with women. The intolerance women show other women – women who by some twist of genetic fate turned out looking like men – makes me sad for women.

          To me it shows that those who feel such have fallen trap to the very misogyny they preach against. You have let society push the very things that should make you a woman into the background and instead focus on the ‘different’ as something bad.

          That’s why those who think like you do not speak for me nor will they. I refuse to take their limitations and dictations of what is and isn’t as a must, just because they say so. And to the transwomen, AND men, who need allies against people like them, I’ll stand with them, however, because that’s not just the right thing to do, but it’s what I, as a woman, OUGHT to do.

          • “Transwomen are women”, if you honestly believe this then you have more problems than a sexual fetish, you are completely delusional. If a white person dressed in a turban and sherwani, who listened to bengal music, watched bollywood films and took medication to make their skin pigmentation appear darker, they would not become asian. Neither would they have always been asian because they “felt” like an asian, or felt an affinity for these things. That would not only be extremely racist (just as it is extremely misogynistic, for males to claim similar things make them women) it would also be delusional. So that discounts much of your argument right there.

            Using women who refuse to conform to sex role stereotypes as a shield, for males completely unethical and misogynistic intrusion into women’s spaces, is sickening. I am a woman who does not conform to sex role stereotypes, and I would not mind being questioned, when I am in women’s spaces, if it keeps autogynephilic men out of women’s them. Many women who do not adhere to sex roles feel similarly. This is just another example of how transgender ideology is forcing everyone to conform (especially females and homosexuals) to sex role stereotypes. And therefore casting suspicion on anyone who is not rigidly following them. Indeed “butch” lesbians and “camp” gays, as well as kids who don’t conform to sex roles, are being fed the trans propaganda that they are stuck in the wrong body. It’s no more than misogynistic, homophobic, psychological abuse. And medical interference with these people is turning healthy individuals into pseudo intersex people, it’s totally unethical and medical malpractice. Transgender ideology has created this travesty and is taking us back to the mentality & practices of the victorian era. If males who claim they are women, could be trusted to have basic human decency and use the bathroom etc based on their sex not their “gender identity” (which means what sex role stereotypes they choose to assume or their internal subjective “feelings”) then this would not be a problem. Again they are too busy worrying about having their delusion validated i.e. they think being admitted into women’s spaces confirms they are women. It is all part of their autogynephilia.

            You typify this with your “i would use a single toilet, if all women use it”, this shows that it is not fear of violence that bothers you, you just don’t want to have to admit you are not a woman. Males who claim they are women are a small % of the population, using a single occupancy toilet is not going to hold many people up. Females are half the populous, and need access to more facilities. Females also have other biological needs that have to be attended to in toilets, this means they spend longer in there and go more frequently, than a male who does not have those requirements. Many women also use these facilities to change babies, the waiting lines would be astronomical if females had to use only one bathroom. You seem to think women go to toilets to gossip & preen, this is a distorted male view. It illustrates you think being in there is fun & are disgruntled that women want to stop men from participating in this perceived fun. It screams male entitlement. There are obvious reasons why females do not want males who claim to be women in changing rooms etc. If I have to point out why that is, then there is nothing more to be said, as you are incapable of having any empathy whatsoever for females.

            Lol i have brought into male ideas of how society is, your projection is laughable. “Not all transwomen do stereotypical female things”, then what makes you assert a biological male is a woman? You can only say this by invoking sex role stereotypes i.e. sexist ideas about how women should dress or by claiming you “feel” like a woman. What those “feelings” are will also be stereotypes of what males think women should feel i.e. submissive, nurturing, shy etc. There is no other way a male can claim to be a woman & we all know it. The “brain sex”, “hormones in womb”, “environmental pollution” explanations are pseudo science nonsense and all rely on misogynistic sex role stereotypes. If these males did have a disorder of sexual development, they would be intersex, not trans and that would be a different issue altogether. By saying “transwomen just are women” you make no sense and appear delusional, in which case this conversation ends, as there is no reasoning with someone who has lost all contact with reality.

            This victim narrative is again manipulation, most “transwomen” that are murdered are gay males of colour who are prostitutes, they are murdered by the males who visit them. Another large proportion are killed by their male partners. There are very few, if any, heterosexual males who claim to be women that are murdered for calling themselves trans. Also the percentage of any trans males that are killed whilst using male facilities, that were not engaed in prostitution in those facilities, is negligible to non-existent. So the victim narrative doesn’t fly.

            “Transwomen” are degraded worse than any female is if they enter a male toilet. What utter nonsense, this shows how very little men like you know about women. Drag queens have been using mens toilets for decades without making a fuss, it is because heterosexual men like you are privileged and have never had to deal with any kind of oppression being directed against you. As soon as you experience any kind of negativity (including looks and name calling) you feel like your world is ending. This is because you are so privileged that these things are completely foreign to you. Women have to put up with the very real threat of sexual harassment from males on a daily basis. Not to mention the subtle and blatant societal messages, we are subjected to from the moment we are born, until the moment we die, that tell us we are inferior to males. No male has ever had to experience these things, on the basis of his sex, so stop with the victim narrative, it just shows how privileged you are. You are only treated with less respect by other men because they think you are a gay man, and gay men are treated with less respect by other men as they are seen as being lesser men. Therefore they are relegated to the category of “womanly men”, by other men, this is due to hatred of women and the fear men have of being thought “womanly”, in other words inferior. This only shows that females are hated and thought of as inferior to males. By saying a male who wants to wear dresses etc is really a woman you only play into that belief. It is not “progressive” or “daring” it is cowardly, conservative, misogynistic and homophobic. If you said these things do not make you any less of a man that would be daring, but the trans ideology of insisting that someone is the opposite sex stuck in the wrong body is not.

            Lol more projections, sexual fetishes are almost exclusively found in males, but you are allergic to facts, so that is hard for you accept. Women have the emotions they do because they are made to be more emotional, this is just more stereotypical nonsense again. Males tend to get upset if called out on their unpleasant behaviour by others and often react with name calling, threats and even violence. Strange that they are not regarded as overly emotional because of this, I can’t possibly think why this is (sarcasm). The madonna/prostitute dichotomy; that a woman should either be a wife/mother or a sexual object, is not a good a thing and is again a sexist male concept.

            No one wishes any harm on males who call themselves transwomen, if they would take no for an answer when women say they do not want them in our spaces, like toilets, changing rooms etc., then there would be no problem. Heterosexual male autogynephiliacs being what they are, privileged and self-entitled will not take no for an answer though. Instead they force themselves into our spaces regardless of our protests. This is rapey, and unacceptable, as a lesbian woman, I also do not want heterosexual males who claim to be women (even if they claim to have always been women) at lesbian gatherings. It is disgusting and completely violating, these men need to respect women’s boundaries and take no for an answer. These men have/or are trying to enact laws where we can not organise women only and lesbians only events, without risk of being prosecuted for discrimination. This is completely disgusting and unacceptable woman & lesbian hating behaviour. What a man who claims to be a woman “ought” to do is stop violating women’s boundaries, and worrying about how fun it is to enter women’s spaces. Instead he should accept that his desire to get outside validation in his mind that he is really a woman, by entering women’s spaces, is not a “right”. And it is not more important than females right to privacy and safety away from him. Everything I have written is easily verifiable, and there are plenty of cases of males who say they are women (transwomen) who have committed offensives against women that can be easily verified. I’ve explained at great length why transgender ideology is harmful to females & homosexuals and children, if you refuse to accept these facts, then I do not think there is anything left to say.

          • Ah, we get to the truth at last, Elaine. You said it yourself, you hate women. If we can summarily dismiss anything transphobic people say then surely we can ignore out of hand anything a misogynist say too? Do you agree nobody should listen to your opinion now that you’ve admitted to being a bigot?

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